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Wednesday, July 27, 2011

Was Leiby a Gilgul of Rav Shach?

I wrote the majority of this post 2 days after the body was found.  I will acknowledge that this post is very controversial for a whole host of reasons.  Because of a these reasons, I've stopped myself from clicking the "Publish Post" button many times.  However, I made the decision that the time is right to publish this.  One may argue with that decision.  That is fair.  I personally argued with myself (figuratively) about it.  If you disagree with my decision, please comment respectfully.  Keep in mind that I'm a nobody and I'm only speaking from what comes into my own head.  I have no idea if this is true - it is pure speculation.  הנסתרות לה' אלקינו.

Leiby Kletzky, A"H, went through the ד' מיתות ב"ד (the 4 executions of Beit Din):

1) Sereifa - as Sereifa was really molten lead poured down one's throat, Leiby was drugged with various drugs that contributed to his death
2) Henek - he was suffocated to death
3) Hereg - his body was R"L dismembered
4) Sekila - part of his body was R"L thrown into a dumpster

Consider the following:

Rav Shach ZT"L wrote in his Tzava'a (last will and testament) to have the ד' מיתות ב"ד done to him after he died.

However, this was never done to him because he verbally told his family that this would look arrogant.

Leiby Kletzky was born July 29th, 2002.

Rav Shach died November 2, 2001.

The difference is 9 months.


I'm not saying that Rav Shach needed a Tikkun for his Neshama.  Far be it from me to say such a thing.  What's more likely is that Kelal Yisrael needed a Tikkun for our collective Neshama.  We were lacking in Ahdut during the lifetime of Rav Shach, and we didn't give him the respect he deserved.  This, in turn, caused Rav Shach to be harsh on those who didn't follow his Hashkafot.  This wasn't out of Kavod for himself, חס ושלום, but rather, trying to protect the Kavod of the Torah.

During the search for Leiby Kletzky, the point was often made that we all had a great sense of Ahdut.  Leiby was able to unite Kelal Yisrael in a way that Rav Shach was not able to.  Despite 200,000 attendees at Rav Shach's funeral, it was more like ויבכו בני ישראל than כל בית ישראל (see Rashi), whereas no one can deny that for Leiby, it was כל בית ישראל.  That was the Tikkun for us all.

Further credence to the idea of Leiby being a Gilgul can possibly be taken from Rav Chaim Kanievsky, who wrote the following to the Kletzkys (English translation by Matzav):
Be”H, 19 Tammuz 5771

It is with great grief that we heard of the tragedy that has transpired to you. We don’t understand the calculations of Heaven, and this is surely a cheshbon (calculation) related to the neshamah in a prior ‘gilgul.’ May Hashem comfort you among the mourners of Tzion and Yerushalayim, and may you see him [Leiby] upon techias hameisim, speedily.

Listen to the audio there on how Rav Moshe Meir Weiss explains that telling parents that their deceased child is a Gilgul is a consolation to the parents.

All I can say is: הורני ה' דרכך


At Wed Jul 27, 03:20:00 PM 2011, Blogger David said...

sorrer u moreh + a slew of gematrias and zohar correlation with mbe parashas balak.

At Wed Jul 27, 03:52:00 PM 2011, Anonymous Netanel said...

This is less than retarded. Sorry.

At Wed Jul 27, 06:03:00 PM 2011, Blogger Rivka said...

Thank you for this! I think it is a very likely explanation. It seemed to quiet my anxiety about the reason for this strange and heart-wrenching tragedy. Your insight is astonishing.

At Wed Jul 27, 06:39:00 PM 2011, Anonymous Anonymous said...


It's an OUTRAGEOUS assertion to make EVEN if it turned out to be true! There were Tzaddikim years ago who were able to identify Neshamos as previous Gilgulim. To my knowledge there is no one that can do that today - and EVEN if they could it wouldn't be posted on the internet! Your statement is a TREMENDOUS breach of Kavod to the Godol AND to Leiby as well. I seriously believe you should completely remove this post - immediately.

At Wed Jul 27, 06:43:00 PM 2011, Blogger in the vanguard said...

How absurd, and beneath dignity! Why not dawdle trying to thread an elephant through a a pinhole!

At Wed Jul 27, 06:46:00 PM 2011, Anonymous Anonymous said...

If you noticed Rav Kanievsky, Shlit"a said "We do not know the ways of Hashem" - he is counted among the greats of our dor. If he doesn't know can we?

At Wed Jul 27, 06:58:00 PM 2011, Blogger joshwaxman said...

I don't think this is likely.

Nor do I think this is a tremendous insult to Rav Shach or Leiby.

At Wed Jul 27, 07:59:00 PM 2011, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wow! Unbelievable. I have to say that I agree with your assertion, but for a different reason. I as well as many others believe that Rav Shach caused a lot of machklokes when he was in this world. So much so, it caused much distress and resentment among many Yidden.

About four days before Leiby's disappearance was reported in the press, a well-known Jewish news site posted a video of Rav Shach delivering a tirade of insults against Rabbi M.M. Schneerson and his shluchim. Along with the video was an article written by a Rabbi defending Rav Shach and writing loshon hora against Lubavitchers. This led to many hateful comments. I tried to defend the Rebbe, zt'l, but the site did not have the guts to post my comment.

Is there a connection between that post and Leiby's death?? I think so. Hashem hates sinas chinam, and it could very well be that Leiby was made a korban to stop a terrible decree against us.

There is a story in the Garden of Emunah about a boy who was murdered in a horrible way. The mother had a dream and her husband who was niftar a while ago was in the dream. Among many other questions, she asked her husband why was their son murdered and why in such a horrific way. Her husband responded that their son was suppose to die at that time. However, in shomayim there was a decree against the Jews because of sinas chinam. Hashem decided to make their son a korban to stop the decree.

I hope that you will post my comment. Hopefully it will send a message to all of us the importance of loving a fellow Jew.

At Wed Jul 27, 09:43:00 PM 2011, Anonymous Anonymous said...

In response to Josh:

Really? You don't think its an insult to conjecture that Rav Shach, ZT"L or Leiby, ZT"L had to go through such barbarism to achieve "Arba Missos Beis Din"?

Exactly what DO you consider insulting?

At Wed Jul 27, 10:06:00 PM 2011, Anonymous Shiloh said...

We have long passed the day's of human human sacrifices for anything. Not good Yaak.

At Thu Jul 28, 12:47:00 AM 2011, Blogger yaak said...

Anonymous 9:43,

If you read the post carefully, you will surely find that I was very respectful to both Rav Shach ZT"L and Leiby, A"H.

In no way did I insult either of them, nor did I intend to do so, ח"ו. Adderabba. Going through what Rav Shach originally said he wanted is a manifestation of צדיק גוזר והקב"ה מקיים. As it wasn't mekuyam immediately after his death 10 years ago, it took place in his gilgul (if this is correct).

And this is not insulting to Leiby either. If someone had to die, who wouldn't want to be the vehicle by which a tzaddik's Tzava'a is fulfilled?

At Thu Jul 28, 03:31:00 AM 2011, Blogger Devorah Chayah said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

At Thu Jul 28, 03:36:00 AM 2011, Blogger Devorah Chayah said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

At Thu Jul 28, 05:37:00 AM 2011, Blogger Devorah said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

At Thu Jul 28, 09:08:00 AM 2011, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Eli says:-
This observation shows incredible insight, and very sensitively written. I for one was very comforted to read this idea, it produced a feeling of calm that things are not just random; that is until the inevitable derogatory comments started appearing. Human nature is such that as soon as something powerfully truthful emerges, people have to push it back in it's box.

At Thu Jul 28, 10:56:00 AM 2011, Anonymous Anonymous said...

all i can say its very possible for a number of reasons and its definetly not a insult look at all the stories of gilgulim in books like ruchut mesaprot and shivchei hari and in many diffrent places on the other hand it isnt wise to try to make a tikkun for amy winehouse or whatever as someone tried too

At Thu Jul 28, 10:59:00 AM 2011, Blogger yoni said...

Regarding Rav Shach and צדיק גוזר והקב"ה מקיים, check this out:

"The Gedolim's Doctor" - Hamodia - March 30 11

At Thu Jul 28, 11:13:00 AM 2011, Blogger joshwaxman said...

"You don't think its an insult to conjecture that Rav Shach, ZT"L or Leiby, ZT"L had to go through such barbarism to achieve "Arba Missos Beis Din"?"

Leaving aside the validity of the idea of gilgul, no.

By positing Leiby as a gilgul, the intent was that he did not *deserve* this, but we can understand it better in the cosmic scheme of things. This certainly does not insult Leiby.

In terms of Rav Shach, this was something he had personally *requested*. And so, the tzadik had his wish fulfilled, in a separate gilgul. And it is possible that absent that wish, he did not 'merit' it more than any other person off the street.

You have to read these things carefully.

kol tuv,

At Thu Jul 28, 11:07:00 PM 2011, Anonymous shaya g said...

just saying hi, you already know my thoughts....

At Tue Sep 11, 07:24:00 PM 2012, Blogger yoni said...

Here's a blog with tons of great articles about Rav Shach:

and here's divrei Torah and mussar from Rav Shach:


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