Friday, September 16, 2011

Latest Geula Update from Rav Fish - Parshat Ki Tavo, 5771

Gleaned from the PDF, which can be found here.

I similarly heard from a Jew who heard from a grandson of Harav Mendel ZT"L from Bnei Brak that Harav Mendel said after the Six Day War that we need to wait another 45 years for the coming of Mashiah because of the verses in the end of Daniel (1335-1290=45). And he also said in his name that he said dozens of years ago that before Mashiah's arrival, the United States will have a black president.


[After repeating what he said here]

And in a deeper sense, that which we see in the verses - the downfall of Gog Umagog will be like this - that on the road to Yerushalayim, they will fight against Egypt and will arouse a war of Edom against Yishmael. It comes out according to this that Egypt, in its war against Israel, is acting for Israel's benefit. It appears that this comes from the awakening of the root of the Exodus from Egypt to assist Am Yisrael because every light leaves an imprint in the place that it was shining, and in Egypt, the imprint remained from the Exodus from Egypt. And this root acts via the Kelipa of Egypt for Israel's benefit. And even though the roads to it enactment sometimes lead to war against Am Yisrael, the root of all this acts - when all is said and done - for Israel's benefit, as we explained, and this shows that root is for Israel's benefit.

And truthfully, this is what occurred in WWII - that their downfall was in Egypt as they didn't succeed in going up to Yerushalayim. And it is similarly told over about the Baba Sali ZT"L who did not allow the bones of his grandfather, Harav Hagaon Ribbi Yaakov Abuhatzeira ZT"L, from Egypt, and said that there is a great Sod that is connected to the Redemption why he needs to specifically be buried in Egypt.

And it's also brought down in the book "Avir Yaakov" (p. 186) that during WWII, when there was a great fear of the Germans going up to the Land of Israel, Harav Hagaon Ribbi Yaakov Abuhatzeira ZT"L appeared in a dream to Harav Hagaon Ribbi Yitzhak Alfia ZT"L - one of the great Kabbalists living in Israel at the time - and told him to come and pray at his gravesite in Egypt, and the wording in the book is that he told him in the dream, "Is it for nothing that I am buried here in Egypt?" And many miracles occurred until he was able to come. On the day that he arrived there and prayed at the gravesite, the Germans inherited their downfall in Egypt.

And Harav Hagaon R' Shimon Shapira Shlit"a that also during the destruction of the first Beit Hamikdash, Egypt tried to get involved for Israel's benefit, as it says (Yirmiya 37:7-8) "'Thus saith the LORD, the God of Israel: Thus shall ye say to the king of Judah, that sent you unto Me to inquire of Me: Behold, Pharaoh's army, which is come forth to help you, shall return to Egypt into their own land. And the Chaldeans shall return, and fight against this city; and they shall take it, and burn it with fire." And it's also brought down in Rashi (Yirmiya 47:1) When Nevuchadnezar beseiged Yerushalayim in the 10th year of Tzidkiyahu, the army of Par'o went out of Egypt and the Chaldeans went up from Jerusalem. Par'o heard this and flooded Gaza and returned to his country.

And Harav Hagaon R' Moshe Levinger Shlit"a adds that we see a connection with the ships that left the land of Turkey as the beginning of the Gog Umagog War, as is brought down in [what's known as] the Targum Yonatan Ben Uziel on the last verse of Bil'am's prophecy (Bemidbar 24:24) "But ships shall come from the coast of Kittim, and they shall afflict Asshur, and shall afflict Eber, and he also shall come to destruction." and the Targum Yonatan says "וציצין יצטרחן במני זיינא ויפקון באכלוסין סגיאין מן למברניא ומארע אטליא ויצטרפון בלגיונין דיפקון מן קוסטנטיני ויצערון לאתוראי וישעבדון כל בנוי דעבר ברם סופהון דאיליין ואליין למיפל ביד מלכא משיחא ויהוון עד עלמא לאובדנא" [see the various ways to translate this here in which bedoheik could have meant the flotilla ships, but I'd say it's a little less doheik to say it's warships. See also this recent Shirat Devorah post.] And the Targum Yerushalmi adds there "דרומאי" [i.e. the south] which hints to Egypt which is found in the south. And it's also brought down in the Targum Yonatan there (verse 19), "And a ruler will arise from the house of Yaakov and will destroy and demolish the remnant of Constantinople - the wicked city."

And it is similarly brought down in the Ibn Ezra (Daniel 11:36) "And know that Aram is northwest of Israel and Constantinople is also north. 'And at the time of the Keitz' means when the end of the King of the North will arrive, who said and was successful until the anger was finished, then the Keitz of the Redeemer will arrive, as he will explain. And behold, he didn't mention when this will be - he just mentioned that this is the king that went out and waged war against the king of Egypt and will capture Egypt and will come to the Land [of Israel] and will be killed there, and after a known number of days from the day of his death, a Redeemer will come to Israel."

And I also heard in the name of Harav Hagaon R' Mordechai Elishar Shlit"a that the name of Turkish leader Erdogan - ארדואן is that same gematria [with the Kollel] as ארס - venom.


At Fri Sep 16, 01:37:00 PM 2011, Blogger joshwaxman said...

"And the Targum Yerushalmi adds there "דרומאי" [i.e. the south] which hints to Egypt which is found in the south."

The Targum Yerushalmi says "ligyonnin sagyan min deroma'ei".

Given that it is coming in replacement of Tg Yonatan's legions from Constantinople, which was the Roman capital, this translation which renders it "and will conjoin with them many legions of the Romaee" sounds right.

That is, de-Roma'ei means "of the Romans". It is not daroma, but de-Roma'ei, which is the gentilic, an ending used to refer to nations.

kol tuv,

At Fri Sep 16, 01:53:00 PM 2011, Blogger yaak said...

Yes, I almost noted that it could mean "Roman" in brackets, but decided not to because I could see it as meaning south too.

But, I agree with you the commentators consider it "deRoma'ei" - not "Deroma'ei".

At Fri Sep 16, 02:36:00 PM 2011, Blogger yaak said...

It's not so far-fetched to say it means "south".

See the footnote here who says:

אך בנדפס אות הד׳ היא קמוצה(ואולי רק מפני המורא נקמצה—) , ולפי
זה, כונת: מן דרומא׳, היא: מן הדרום

I should have transliterated "Daroma'ei".

At Fri Sep 16, 03:27:00 PM 2011, Blogger joshwaxman said...

I should have mentioned that Onkelos renders it מֵרוֹמָאֵי. which indeed makes it extremely farfetched. i mean, the other two targumim say Romans (as Romans or as from Constantinople, capital of the Romans), one of which is a Tg Yerushalmi, and we are going to reparse it to mean something different?

plus, the pasuk says Kittim which classically refers to Romans. see here:

in my mikraos gedolos, there is a shvva. certainly there is variation in such texts.

(i will say, though, that i find the pattern "min de-" weird.

even if we say it is from the south, that does not need to mean egypt, which is to the southwest, as rashi states. it could refer to saudi arabia. if it meant egypt, wouldn't you have reasonably expected tg yer to say Mitzrayim.

it is dochak upon dochak upon dochak, to reach a desired conclusion. they don't eval the text and see where it takes them, but start with a desire to reach egypt. imho, of course. this is why we have kvetches here, just as the kvetches you noted about the flotilla.

At Fri Sep 16, 03:39:00 PM 2011, Blogger yaak said...

I don't disagree with you that it's more likely to mean Romans, but I just noted a source that says it mean "south", so I wouldn't call it far-fetched for Rav Fish to agree with a previous source, especially one which comes from a variant girsa with nikud supporting it.

As you noted, the "Min de" weirdness.

Saying Egypt is what the "south" refers to is also very common. The Ibn Ezra on Daniel 11:40 says just that.

At Fri Sep 16, 03:53:00 PM 2011, Blogger joshwaxman said...

there is surely a diff between cryptic closed prophecy and a targum which takes pains in the pasuk to identify each nation by contemporary name (Livernia earlier).

but ok, south can refer to egypt.

At Fri Sep 16, 04:32:00 PM 2011, Blogger joshwaxman said...

" ארדואן is that same gematria [with the Kollel] as ארס - venom."

פנחס הוא אליהו

didn't look for one-offs,

At Fri Sep 16, 05:00:00 PM 2011, Anonymous Anonymous said...

who knows what will be but abir yaakov was an incredible incredible holy man and kabbalist . I pray him and rav nachman really intervene big time this year ! for there combined cochot could bring mashiach and destroy amalak !

At Sat Sep 17, 02:55:00 PM 2011, Blogger Dov Bar-Leib said...

Ya'ak, construction on the Dome of the Rock began in 687 ce not 677 ce. So the number of years between the construction of the Dome and the 6 Day War is only 1280 years. So it is ten years off from what is in Sefer Daniel. I would love to scream and shout that we are now 45 years later, but does Rav Fish have an explanation for why Daniel's vision was cut short by ten years?

At Sun Sep 18, 02:20:00 AM 2011, Blogger yaak said...

R' Dov Bar Leib,

Your question prompted Gilui to predict a Geula a decade from now.

It's a good question, but the connection to the six-day war cannot be overlooked, and I wouldn't say that anything as significant occurred in 1977, so my guess is that there must be something related to the Shikutz Shomeim that began 10 years earlier. Perhaps, the planning stages for the construction occurred in 677, and Hashem did a Hesed to make Mahshava KeMa'aseh. Just a possibility.

At Mon Oct 03, 03:00:00 PM 2011, Blogger yaak said...


Also note this Wikipedia article on the gemara in Sanhedrin 98a that talks about Mashiah at the gates of Rome, which quotes the Maharsha as as saying "deRomi" means "south" - not Rome - in that case. Just another example of this idea occurring.


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