Wednesday, December 15, 2010

New 5771 Geula Predictions

Hat tip to Shirat Devorah, who referred me to this shiur.  Rabbi David Katz has a shiur on TorahAnytime (listen here) where he takes the Zohar, Rashi, and the Ramban - and uses their wording to show how they all predict a 5771 Geula.  I hope I understood the shiur correctly - if anyone understood it differently than I present it here, please let me know.  Note that much of what he says is not the literal meaning of their words, but he claims that this could be an intended meaning of their words, al derech drush.

Before he does that, he notes 2 Gematrias:

1) Daniel 12:12 אשרי המחכה ויגיע - the word המחכה ("he that waits"can be reconstructed as 5770 in the following way:
  • ה - stands for 5000
  • כה - the 25th letter of the alef bet is ן with a gematria of 700
  • מח - in א"ת ב"ש is יס, which = 70
2) The word הכרמל (the Carmel) can also have the gematria of 5770 as follows:

  • ה - stands for 5000
  • כ - really is ך, which = 500
  • רמל - which = 270

He further notes that being off by a year is OK in year calculations, so any calculations for 5770 can also mean 5771.

Back to his dealing with the sources.  He says that the Hurban of the second Beit Hamikdash occurred in 3830 (unlike many Jewish sources which say it occurred in 3828, but he is taking the secular date of 70 CE).

ודע, כי חכמי המשנה מעידים בביאור, כי רומה תפסה מלכות על [אנשי] בית שני, בנצחם את היונים, מזמן
 מאתים ושש שנה קודם החרבן, וכשתוסיף המספר הזה על
 אלף של״ה, שהוא קץ גאלתנו השלמה, נמצא שעמדנו תחת
 יד רומה ושכניה, אשר מכרה אותנו להם, אלף תק״מ שנה
 כי שנת אלף של״ה בה תהיה גאלתנו שלמה. אשרי המחכה
 ויגיע אליה.

So you add 3830 + 1335 (years in Daniel 12:12) + 206 (years Rome ruled before the Hurban) = 5371

 Then, he takes the Ramban in the end of Sefer HaGeula:

 ואולי הרמז אשר יעדנו לו בתחלת
דברינו מפרשת 
כי תוליד בנים, הוא מפסוק: בצר לך
 ומצאוך כל הדברים האלה באחרית הימים ושבת עד ה׳
,אלהיך וגו׳ 
 כי אם תספור לך ומצאוך כל הדברים האלה
,באחרית הימים יעלה בידך לחשבון הגימטריא, אלף רצ״א
 כמספר, אשר מן החרבן השני הנרמז בפרשה 
עד ביאת
 הגואל הראשון משיח בן אפרים
 where he takes the word כמספר which itself has the gematria of 400.  So, 5371 + 400 = 5771.

  • Next, he discusses the Vilna Gaon, who many wrongly predicted a 5750 Geula from his words.  Rabbi Katz says that the Vilna Gaon wrote it in 5520 - not in 5500 - so when the Vilna Gaon divided the last 500 years of history in half, he claims it should be pushed off by 20 years, bringing us to 5770.
ואי תימא דלע׳ תחיל ולב׳ שנין אולידת, בתר אלף ומאתן
 בחושבן רע״ב

Partially based on the Sulam, Rabbi Katz explains that 3830 + 1200 = 5030.  Add another 200 as the Sulam says = 5230.  Add another 200 (I don't know where Rabbi Katz gets this from) = 5430.  Add 70 = 5500.  Add the 272 = 5772, but since we're in the 272nd year, we can say this equates to 5771.
  • Next, he takes the Zohar Vayera 119a and Zohar Pinhas 252a and the Haza"l that 2 years were subtracted to ונושנתם, which means that 2 years will be subtracted from the final Geula too.  He then does a calculation based on the word שש equaling 600 to come to 5771.  (Too technical to get into the calculation.)

עד עידן ועידנין ופלג עידן - קץ סתום הוא זה כאשר נאמר לדנייאל סתום הדברים וחתום ודרשוהו הראשונים איש לפי דעתו וכלו הקצים ויש לנו לפותרו עוד כאשר ראיתי כתוב בשם רב סעדיה הם אלף וג' מאות ול"ה שנים האמור בסוף הספר אשרי המחכה וגו' ופי' המועד עד עת שני עתים וחצי עת ואמר שהעתים הם ד' מאות ופ' שמיום צאתם ממצרים עד שנבנה הבית, וד' מאות ועשר ימי מקדש ראשון הרי תת"ץ ועוד חצי העת הזה תמ"ה הרי אל"ף של"ה את אלה חשוב מעת הוסר התמיד עד שוב זבח התמיד אל מקומו והוא הוסר שש שנים לפני החורבן ויש קצת ראיה בספר זה, ועוד יש מביאין ראיה לחשבון זה הסתר אסתיר פני הסתר אסתיר בגי' אלף ושל"ה

Rabbi Katz says that לפני החורבן means at the Hurban, you are looking ahead of you.  He also says that בספר should be read Bisfar (i.e. in the number).  He further says that the underlined word שש equals 600 in gematria  + ויש קצת means take the literal word שש which is smaller to mean 6.  So, 3830 + 1335 + 606 = 5771.


Now, all this is a stretch as I said - it is definitely not the literal meaning of these sefarim.  Rabbi Katz will likely say that the words were purposely coded to not allow their meaning to be revealed until it is close to the Geula.  Whatever it is, it is a nice Drush on their holy words.  Whether it is Emet or not, time will tell.


At Wed Dec 15, 04:11:00 AM 2010, Blogger Shimshon said...

I take all such predictions with a grain of salt, as I have heard them for decades now. However, it also says that at some point the calculations will be so obvious that every little kid and his brother will be able to do it. In any case, I do believe the geula will not only be in my lifetime (I'm 44) but very soon, as I have a greater understanding of economics than probably 99% of the population, and I know what's coming (we're far from hitting bottom).

At Wed Dec 15, 06:24:00 AM 2010, Anonymous Anonymous said...

My understanding of Tanach is that Geula will occur when Jews do tshuva.

At Wed Dec 15, 08:13:00 AM 2010, Anonymous Machlouf said...

Yaak, if you want to watch something interesting, here is a video about what the Rebbe predicted would be the future of Yehuda and Shomron up until the coming of Moshiach.


At Wed Dec 15, 10:22:00 AM 2010, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The rabbi is NOT following the proper LAWS of gematria from my reading ive studied gematria for 20 years . Anyways at least a rabbi whose trying . As for mashiach he comes to dor completely rightous or wicked and the majority opinion is SORRY everyone out there COMPLETELY WICKED . Mashiach will have to bring Hashem into the world in a way we never comprehended period ! At the level of YECHIDAH ! then tshuvah will follow NOT BEFORE !

At Wed Dec 15, 10:54:00 AM 2010, Anonymous Anonymous said...

this statement completely rightous or wicked is seen in the laws of nature which parrallel the laws of mathamatics as the ancient greeks theorized . -5.-5=25 5.5 =25 -5.5=-25 have positive and negative is still NEGATIVE! all negative times negative is a positive ! and oviousely all positive times positive which sorry is far from the case Hashem Yerachem is a positive !

At Wed Dec 15, 11:32:00 AM 2010, Anonymous Anonymous said...

YHVH =26 ,1-10 =55 = 10 sefirot 26 plus 55 = 81 =nature/tevah Hashem is above nature when the sefirot are filled and zer anpin YHVH is active as in egypt and krias yam suf and at many other times it superceedes greek wisdom / laws of nature AMEN SELAH VAED !

At Wed Dec 15, 02:23:00 PM 2010, Blogger Devorah said...

Rabbi Katz asked me to post this response:

(Part 1)

To answer questions of the shiur in the order of Yeranen Yaakov's elucidation:

Inyan "drush" = in the mold of the Gra, whose pardes system is not p"r"d"s as in the norm, but rather, remez sod pshat in the shiur, I inclined to remez, as the loshon was shver, which immediately I realized there was latent sod in the words....I formed a "pshat" in the words, and the shiur was derech drush, to elaborate the "pshat" the mold of the Gra... The way drush works in this case, either it's there or it isn't, but in this case it seemed to work quite well, brought the words to life, and expounded on closed matters, and apparently made them once again relevent.

My issues with Rashi were: vyesh kzat rayah besefer zeh...what does that mean? so when I ended with my drush, I had a living body of work in front of me, much the same way I understood the Ramban, c'mispar (400)...and acordingly, the sulam.

heh= 5000...we use this in expressing dates, and it is related to alef elef 1/1000, and the heh is related to menatzpach, as there are 5 of them = 280 in gematria, the heh then makes 285, or para...this is maramez to para adumah...a remez to moshiach ben yosef (para/shor;adumah/adam-heh...tikkun of Adam Harishon, missing the heh [adamah] and the gematria 50 as in nun shaarei binah, the inyan of para adumah; also adumah red = din, like MBY (Moshiach ben Yosef) , and the menatzpach milui gematria is 571, Moshiach ben Yosef.

At Wed Dec 15, 02:24:00 PM 2010, Blogger Devorah said...

(Part 2)

Nun sofit is the 25th letter of the alef bais, whose gematria is 700, Rashi Sukka 52b, sulam, etc.

Atbash, works with gematria as any regular gematria, as does Atbach albam, etc..see Rav Glazerson, etc.

Caf sofit = 500, once again sulam/Rashi...a sofit being not at the end of a word, see Navi Yishaya, where a mem sofit not at the end, sukkah 52b uses caf sofit in zivuug with heh and nun, spelling kohen, caf first, the sod of kohen levi, arizal..of the right and left...likened to loshon hakodesh, written from right to left, but the writing is from left to right in the ktav, but its from right to left, etc. the dugma of the kohen...also the Arizal relates the menatzpach anywhere in a word, is the gevuros sweetened by the chasdadim, and relate to mochin b' gadlus, as opposed to katnus, not sweetened, and only at the end of the word...this is the sod of ktav ashuris infused with ivri, tohu and tikkun producing geulah, the simon of the peh with a beis inside as a depiction. the mem is the dugma, but it extends to all 5 menatzpach, virtually taking remez into gadlus and the infinite, making loshon hakodesh, and recognizing the divinity in that which is written and holy.

Thus menatzpach and its regular counterpart are interchangeable anywhere in a word ie. kohen can be 75, or 555, nafka mina, 555 is atbash gematrria of Moshiach ben Yosef, the kohen of the left, shoresh neshama of pinchas according to the Gra, shayach to gevurah, like Yitzchak on level of ketz chai, 208 = Pinchas, and the kohen 75 of the right MBD, as it says in tehillim 110, koehn leolam, mil gematria v kol hator (753) or, Pinchas Eliayhu in at v kol hator in atbash is 358, moshiach...and kol hator in the normative, chaser the vav...(747) is 278 Pinchas zehu Eliyahu in atbash as 747 is Pinchus (pinchas) in mil sharing the vav with Eliyahu from Yaakov indicated in bris shalom (broken vav) and in malachi bris shalom and chaim.

At Wed Dec 15, 02:26:00 PM 2010, Blogger Devorah said...

(Part 3)
Years being 5771/5770 is a concept called inclusive or non inclusive with a differential of almost a full unit of 2 (years) see berachot 4th chapter for zman shacharis/mincha, rebbe yehuda.

3830 and not very good friend Chaim Clorfene, author of Path of the Righteous Gentile, and the Messianic Temple, a world expert in bais shlishi, he builds worldclass models of the Temple on exhibit in Jerusalem in the old city, and in museums around the world, with his research, the temple was destroyed in 3830. You can refer to his book, The Messianic Temple, found in bookstores.

The sulam cheshbon is in unison with the Ramban, both took up a mysterious extra 400 years into account. both basing it on Daniel...with matayim (200) coresponding to moadim (double) = 400..this is the mesora of the gra, that moadim is 2 2000's = 4000 +1000 +500 ( times time and half) thus ramban uses c mispar = 400, and sulam says matayim is really implied to be double. there is your missing 400/200.

Rashi sefer/ referenced to 1st mishna of sefer yetzirah, which rashi quotes in shas that sefer. shesh , shin shin is 600, and can be 6 as explained.

The rest of the values in Daniel, ie 1335 are psukim in mesora, and the other numbers are nominals brought explicitly by the sages, from Daniel, and or a way of cheshbon in Daniel, of time, times and half. That pussuk is a functioning calculator of sorts, and each sages cheshbon can be produced from the time times and half pussuk, in conjunction with the elef matayim v tishim, and the 1335 pussuk. but lamysa its a mesora from at least rav sadyia, and encrypted by the rishonim, and of course the zohar.

The zohar cheshbonot are indeed a bit more complex, 60, 66, 66.5, 72.5, 73, 56 [50] ,62, 62.5, 68, 68.5...turning raav 272, to ranu 56..coming to 5771 as worked out in the zohar/sulam.

The rules followed here are the mesora of gematria, remez, kabala,pardes,conceptual torah applied, logic/emunah (recognizing that perhaps the words of the rishonim are sealed and not meager attempts at giving over a mesora, but that maybe there is a major mesora being given over, and to no surprise they are all in unison and of agreement and are incorporating the same principles in their own way, through loshon/remez, etc)

And incorporating the dynamics of drush, in loshon...from the pardes of the Gra. the point behind this, and Yeranen Yaakov explained this perfectly: just like ironing out a gemara, which basically incorporates the same way of thinking to derive meaning when learned b iyun, that when the Rashi and Ramban are finished, and then you go back over them read them, with the mascana in mind, Rashi in makes for a beautiful Rashi, and radically simpler to just read it, the way Yeranen Yaakov worded it, thereby making the words of the rishonim poetic, as they should be and as i believe they are...remember, they are the fruition of the Torah sh baal peh...their words are Torah as tefilah, a communication...amrei a kli maleh that is machzik says the gemara...nobody does this better than Rashi, Ramban (also the Rambam fyi) and of course the Zohar.

I assure you I have a makor for every word of Torah I say...I assure you of this, if there are any further questions, please email them to me:

At Wed Dec 15, 03:41:00 PM 2010, Anonymous Anonymous said...

If you look at the last words of Isaiah chp. 60, "Be'itah Achishena/In it's time I will hasten it", if you take the word "Be'itah" and spell it backwords, you will have "Hay Tav Ayin Bet". In the word "Achishena", the 3rd to last letter is Shin. If you take it out of the 3rd to last place in "Achishena" and place it as the 3rd to last letter in "Beitah", you now have an exact spelling of "Hay Tav Shin Ayin Bet/5772." The remainder of the letters from "Achishena" have a numerical value of 74, the same value as "Ad/until". Therefore, this could secretly read UNTIL 5772/2011-2012. Could this be a secret code??? I do not know the future and am not making any absolute predictions. I am just sharing what I observed which may or may not be signifficant.

At Wed Dec 15, 04:24:00 PM 2010, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Just watched the video of the Rebbe.

Unfortunately we gave back Gaza. So we do not have all the territory today.

At Wed Dec 15, 06:28:00 PM 2010, Blogger joshwaxman said...

"vyesh kzat rayah besefer zeh...what does that mean?"
i discuss a straightforward, peshat explanation of that statement here.

basically, Rashi is explaining a slight, though not explicit, source in sefer Daniel for the idea that korbanot ended 6 years prior to the churban. there is a pasuk in the 9th perek of Daniel that serves as a basis. if you read Rashi into the 8th perek, to pasuk 8:14, he explains there how that pasuk, 9:27, is a slight but not entirely explicit proof to the six years.

kol tuv,

At Wed Dec 15, 07:25:00 PM 2010, Anonymous zach said...

Oh my goodness. Why does ANYBODY give ANY credence to these predictions? They are truly meaningless as they have been for the past 1000 years of people attempting (and failing 100% of the time) to predict the coming of moshiach.

It's fine to hope that the messiah is coming in one's own lifetime,
but the lack of common sense is exemplified by a poster claiming that it will be soon because someone has a good understanding of economics?!

At Thu Dec 16, 01:44:00 AM 2010, Anonymous David said...

I think if we step out of our linear view for a moment and go back to 1991...5751, the Rebbe pointed out that we had entered different space where everything would be sped up towards Geulah Sleima. Things have definitely continued to careen towards more uncertainty and at the same time the technological advances of the last few years are nearly miraculous. This isn't a view point that is divorced from reality. All of these dates we have been playing around with have meaning, yet they may just be markers along the way in which we will look back and realize how momentous they were and how they propelled the Geulah process forward towards completion.

At Thu Dec 16, 12:57:00 PM 2010, Anonymous Neshama said...

WOW, this was great reading. These attempts at calculations are getting stronger. Even if they are signposts "on the road" they seem to be getting more intense. While events are being speeded up (as some may perceive). It reminds me of the description of 'speed', I think as Einstein explained it, that of a train traveling at a certain speed, and looking out the window, a tree up the hill is hardly moving, but when the train passes a station it appears that the train is speeding by. IOW speed is determined by the observer's perception based on position.

So, now that you are wondering what in the world I'm talking about ... How far or close to the Geulah we are is ... Based on one's perception ... On ones 'understanding' of events. That is why one sees connections and others don't see it at all!

At Thu Dec 16, 02:22:00 PM 2010, Blogger Devorah said...

Great comment Neshama - I agree 100%.


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