Rav Ovadia Yosef on Today's Korah
I tried to avoid this topic publicly as much as possible. I cannot any longer. I believe that if I didn't speak up, I would be in the category of יכול למחות ולא מיחה, so I must speak up. אוי לי אם אגיד אוי לי אם לא אגיד.
Rav Ovadia Yosef Shlit"a, in a stinging attack on the Ko'ah Lehashpia party and its leader, via Kikar (with video):
Who will stand at the head of the party of Amnon Yitzhak? Who will stand at its head? Will he himself stand at its head? ערבך ערב צריך! (Your guarantor himself needs a guarantor!) What, is he such a Lamdan? What is he, a Talmid Hacham? He calls himself a Hacham! He considers himself higher and higher - that he is a leader. You need to know that he is being arrogant and HKB"H will lower his status! Therefore, Rabbotai, I never raised myself up or held myself high. Korah said "wherefore then lift ye up yourselves above the assembly of the LORD?" This is Korah, the master of Mahaloket (argument). In every generation, "the sons of Korah did not die", i.e., there are sons of Korah making arguments and political parties.This is in addition to what Rav Ovadia said yesterday.
I wouldn't dare say such things against someone who had been Makarev so many thousands of people on my own. However, when Rav Ovadia Yosef Shlit"a, the Gadol Hador, says such things, when he says regarding that person "הקדיח תבשילו" (the same expression the gemara on Berachot 17b uses against Yeshu, according to the Ritva there), when a list of over 35 great Sephardic rabbis in Israel today signs a letter condemning the leader of Ko'ah Lehashpia, we know that there is a good and serious reason that these things are being said and done. Therefore, I will register my protest as well.
May those who speak against Maran Rav Ovadia Yosef - and against his family - apologize and repent for their venomous statements and may we only see Ahdut in Kelal Yisrael.
posted by yaak @ 1/17/2013 05:40:00 PM
13 comments
13 Comments:
Wow, it saddens me so much!
I've listened to some lectures by Rav Amnon Yitzchak on the Internet and had an excellent impression: he seems to be highly versed in Torah and a charismatic leader, capable of great outreach towards our brothers who live their lives distant from Judaism.
I'm just beginning to learn Hebrew, therefore I'm not able to check all original sources on this machloket, but anyway I (used to?) admire both Rebbeim involved in this issue, and it breaks my heart that two such important sages should demonstrate any kind of dissent before the whole world.
RH.
yaak this story is killing me inside i am a true chosid of Maran but just listen to amnons lectures and its pretty clear they tooks his words out of context many times, isnt also possible they are telling Maran all the facts and censoring what they tell him? i dont want to get into lashan hara והמבין יבין I honstely think the charadie media drummed this machlokes all bec. of politics in a nutshell?
It's painful for me too.
Re: taking his words out of context, it's hard to justify statements like "If he said that, he transgressed an Aveira De'oraita" or hinting that he didn't really have a stroke and it was all a political ploy. This is besides what was said against Rav Ovadia's son Moshe, his wife, and other members of Shas.
Re: censoring what they tell him, this is what he himself claimed and Rav Ovadia himself refuted that claim, comparing it to the story of R' Akiva Eiger - see here.
My position is that if R' Amnon Yitzhak would have said "If you vote for Shas or Aguda, continue to do so, but if not, here's my alternative", no one would have said "Boo". Unfortunately, he went a different direction. And his reputation is now tarnished. It is not too late, however, for him to repent for this.
he absolutey did say that in the begining. they started a vicious attack on him "they" didnt let him see Maran for years bec. of his anti-singer crusade (which personally im against but he has rabbonim on his side of that issue) you probaby heard of the recording of where she says "hes erased in my book" etc... I dont like his way of speaking but does the punishmint fit the crime? why did rav dovid have to go to his shul in bnie brak months ago to antagonize him? did he do no good for our nation in terms of spreading emunah? that nobody could have and still could persue shalom? actually from the two recent videos of Maran it sounds like he understand amnon wanted to open a yemenite party? do you think maran condones violence against amnon? Im really confused you cant believe everything you hear or read in the chardie media they have there own agendas aside bieng affialited with shas they drive up thier ratings etc.. amnon repeated dozens of times it the askonim that he has a problem with he never uttered one word against Maran even though he could have been more respectfull? you know and i know lots of sefardi and assknazi rabboim over the years who treat/ed Maran far worse were they linched like this? doesnt he deserve a fair shot? sorry for the run on I just couldnt sleep
I advise you to close this subject for disscusions if you don't want burn yourself and burn others. we have no daat about it and make disscusions about two gedoley.
--Tsaddik Nistar
they started a vicious attack on him
They did not go public with any vicious crusade. The one who started the vicious crusade was not Ribbi Moshe Yosef.
I dont like his way of speaking but does the punishmint fit the crime?
I'm all for being Dan Lechaf Zechut. However, the lack of remorse for his words, and aderaba, digging himself further into the trenches, plus Rav Ovadia himself expressing his opinion, are what clinched it for me. So, whether the punishment is deserved is not for me or you to decide, but for the Gadol Hador, and he has spoken.
amnon repeated dozens of times it the askonim that he has a problem with he never uttered one word against Maran even though he could have been more respectfull
Yes, I am aware what he said. I even watched one of his videos on Shofar to judge for myself. The lack of respect was apparent - no matter what he says. And saying "If he wrote that, he is Over an Aveira De'oraita" proves it.
you know and i know lots of sefardi and assknazi rabboim over the years who treat/ed Maran far worse were they linched like this? doesnt he deserve a fair shot?
No one went after Maran's family like he did. You simply cannot do that and expect to come out unscathed.
Tsaddik Nistar, I considered closing it for comments, but as long as the discussions remain respectful and civil, I will allow them.
just becareful not to burn yourself, just a advise
i watched all of amnons video to hear it out his mouth. he said multiplr times since it against halacha it must be forged. I agree its still a chutzpah even though rav kanyvesky agreed with him. what about the fact that Rabbis Lugasi Zachai Mukrabi said they never signed the letter even rav shalom kohen and rav tzadka were confused about which version they signed all availble on youtube? and now rav ratzabi endorsed his party. Personally i think everybody should vote shas because maran said so period. but throughout history we find many instances were askonim swayed instigate gedolim for personal financial reasons? im confused maran says in the first video he does not hate amnon then why write hekdeach tavshelo then korach? i just simply dont understand I know amnon crossed some line but just like that after years of spreading emunah throw him to the dogs maybe yes i just dont get right now. i guess i just want believe this could have been avoided if not for certain peoples personal.... what about the fact he says over and over by all his lectures he loves maran the statment about chillul shabos was also taken out of context and flamed more sinah all thogh i agree even his orignal statement should not have been said. i daven this should end well with a kiddush hashem and shalom i think of all balie teshuva and secular yidden what r they thinking of this? the gemarah says in i think shabos that even tzadikim gemurem cant stand in the place of balie teshuva of course a baal teshuva can sin and again i ask maybe you can explain: why did rav dovid have to go to his shul in bnie brak months ago to antagonize him? did he do no good for our nation in terms of spreading emunah? that nobody could have and still could persue shalom? actually from the two recent videos of Maran it sounds like he understand amnon wanted to open a yemenite party? do you think maran condones violence against amnon? Im really confused you cant believe everything you hear or read in the chardie media they have there own agendas aside bieng affialited with shas they drive up thier ratings etc.. amnon repeated dozens of times it the askonim that he has a problem with he never uttered one word against Maran even though he could have been more respectfull? i did hear rav mazuz will be speaking out motzie shabos
what about the fact that Rabbis Lugasi Zachai Mukrabi said they never signed the letter even rav shalom kohen and rav tzadka were confused about which version they signed all availble on youtube?
I saw one of these - where Rav Amnon's follower called one of these rabbis and he claims he never signed the letter. OK, it's troubling, but even if true, Ruba deRuba did sign it.
and now rav ratzabi endorsed his party.
He has his own Derech for the Teimanim anyways.
im confused maran says in the first video he does not hate amnon then why write hekdeach tavshelo then korach?
Of course he doesn't hate him. It's Assur to hate a Jew. Rather, he is warning people against him. He won't meet him b/c it would be Bitul Torah since he won't listen to him anyways, he said.
i just simply dont understand I know amnon crossed some line but just like that after years of spreading emunah throw him to the dogs maybe yes i just dont get right now. i guess i just want believe this could have been avoided if not for certain peoples personal
It probably could have been avoided. However, the seeds for this Mahaloket really started long ago when Rav Ovadia gave Schweky the heter to sing concerts and Rav Amnon was vehemently against it.
what about the fact he says over and over by all his lectures he loves maran
I don't doubt that he does. He needs to learn Hachna'a though. The episode with Rav Fanger was another example of this.
the statment about chillul shabos was also taken out of context and flamed more sinah all thogh i agree even his orignal statement should not have been said
He also said it was taken out of context. I wish I could believe it.
i daven this should end well with a kiddush hashem and shalom
Me too.
i think of all balie teshuva and secular yidden what r they thinking of this?
Good point. It's a problem.
and again i ask maybe you can explain: why did rav dovid have to go to his shul in bnie brak months ago to antagonize him? did he do no good for our nation in terms of spreading emunah? that nobody could have and still could persue shalom?
I don't remember this and only saw a brief mention of it here. It must be that he considered R' Amnon a threat and his opening his party an affront to Shas and Rav Ovadia. I always hope for Shalom, but Rav Ovadia has stated that he will not listen to him even if he comes so there is nothing more he can do. The only possibility of Shalom, IMHO, is for R' Amnon to finally show some Hachna'a.
actually from the two recent videos of Maran it sounds like he understand amnon wanted to open a yemenite party?
It didn't sound like that to me at all - he was just talking to Teimani rabbis, and therefore talked about Ahdut among all the Edot.
do you think maran condones violence against amnon?
Of course not.
Im really confused you cant believe everything you hear or read in the chardie media they have there own agendas aside bieng affialited with shas they drive up thier ratings etc
Some of that is true, which is why I waited to post this when I saw the latest videos. The videos don't lie.
amnon repeated dozens of times it the askonim that he has a problem with he never uttered one word against Maran even though he could have been more respectfull?
It is this lack of respect that is the problem.
i did hear rav mazuz will be speaking out motzie shabos
Interesting. He is one of the signers. There were a whole bunch of Kikar articles lately of various rabbanim telling Sepharadim to listen to Rav Ovadia.
If I recall correctly, in some cases there is an obligation to hate a jew.
I wish to ask our friends in EY, in particular if there are observant Sefaradim who are reading this and who are in touch with the kehilla of Maran Ovadia, if there is truth to what is being reported in the secular press.
http://www.haaretz.com/news/israeli-elections-2013/israeli-elections-news-features/vandals-burn-religious-books-written-by-shas-leader-rabbi-ovadia-yosef.premium-1.495114
No one commenting? So, it is the truth?
im trying not to comment on this ugly episode of machlokes, however re: the burnt seforim most new reports say it was a disturbe man who had some sort of issue with badatz biet yosef re: his buthcer shop, others are saying these seforim where brought from a shul that recently had a fire and shas people were looking to drum up anger agianst the other party
for the other side see therav.co.il/
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