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Wednesday, July 11, 2012

The 3 Weeks in Halacha and Aggada

I noticed a very nice pdf file (in Hebrew) that explains the 3 weeks - both its Halachic laws and the stories behind it.

You can find it here.

The Aggadic portion tells the detailed story of the destructions of both Batei Mikdash in story form.  It later talks about the destruction of Betar and the story of the 10 martyrs.  It even has a chapter about Yemot HaMashiah (pages 54-60).  Finally, it contains Megilat Eicha with a simple commentary.

This is followed by the laws of the 3 weeks, 9 days, Shavua Shehal Bo, and Tish'a Be'av.

If you read Hebrew, check it out.


At Wed Jul 11, 07:03:00 PM 2012, Blogger Dov Bar-Leib said...

I am not sure if the laws of shavua sheChal bo apply when Tisha B'Av falls on Shabbat. I believe Shavua sheChal bo can only fall after Shabbat Chazon which is on Tisha B'Av this year. Also on the 17th of Tamuz itself which also fell on Shabbat, we read the Haftarah of Balak, not the first haftarah of the three weeks. So even on the 17th of Tamuz this year, we had not even entered the 3 weeks. So even the three weeks themselves are nidcheh this year. And as you know from Rav Fish on parshat Pinchus, there are some who are wondering if the 3 weeks have been nidcheh forever. Consult your Rav if this seems complicated.

At Wed Jul 11, 07:36:00 PM 2012, Blogger Dov Bar-Leib said...

Apparently the Yerushalmi in Ta'anith and the Rambam agree with the above logic. But then I found this: and I said oy vavoy:

Of course in 5765, Tisha B'Av fell on a Sunday, not on Shabbat.

At Wed Jul 11, 10:11:00 PM 2012, Anonymous Anonymous said...

“laying the groundwork for a restatement and reconstitution of Jewish thought and practice"
Reconstitution? Restatement?

"Rather than relying exclusively on the traditions of Rabbinical authorities in the Exile who studied and lived Judaism within the historical context of a minority residing in a foreign land under non-Jewish sovereignty, Machon Shilo encourages the study and implementation of the traditions and rulings found in the ancient sources of Land of Israel such as the Talmud Yerushalmi (Jerusalem or Palestinian Talmud), compiled in Tiberias in the 4-5th centuries, rather than the Talmud Bavli, compiled by rabbinic authorities in Babylon some 200 years later."

"What is needed at this juncture of history is a reconstituted Halachic Judaism"

"However Orthodox Judaism too is flawed; it was by definition a response to the rise of Reform Judaism in the early 19th century."

"Responding to the Reform movement’s complete disregard for traditional practice and established religious jurisprudence, the new and reactionary “Orthodox Judaism” (a previously unknown term) adopted an extreme and opposite approach, viz. that the Ashkenazi Jewish practice which had evolved in Europe till that time should be enshrined, denying the possibility of any change whatever, even where such change is mandated by the Tora itself."
No comment.

"This is not and never was the intent of Halachic Judaism. The rabbinical authorities of the past, Hazal, the G'onim and the Rishonim, always understood the need and were willing to take stock of the realities of the present, to allow changes for the better. They were always redefining and reinventing certain elements of Halakhah, even changing well-established practices to suit the different circumstances and needs of the Jewish people in their times."
See how lucky we are? We've got geniuses who are (G-d forbid) superior to the rabbis of the Talmud, who can set up fences and cancel them.

Thank you for the link and now we finally can start to realize what sort of people you all are.

At Wed Jul 11, 10:59:00 PM 2012, Blogger yaak said...

Thank you for the link and now we finally can start to realize what sort of people you all are.

I'm not sure to whom this comment was addressed. It obviously was not addressed to me (who didn't mention mechonshilo) or to R' Dov (who OyVavoyed it away). I still don't know whom you are referring.

At Thu Jul 12, 02:35:00 AM 2012, Blogger Devorah Chayah said...

Dov, why "oyvavoy"? What specifically are you referring to?

At Thu Jul 12, 06:19:00 AM 2012, Blogger Dov Bar-Leib said...

I was referring to continuing the laws of mourning with regards to shavua sheChal bo into the following week specifically through the tenth of Av and beyond because of the Disengagement in the year 5765. This was a special circumstance where the laws of shavua shechal bo would apply to the following week because the Disengagement started on the tenth of Av, and the forcible removals began on the twelfth of Av. It was also unusual because Tisha B'Av itself fell on Yom Rishon. This year the evacuations of Migron and the removal of five buildings from the Ulpana neighborhood in pieces are scheduled for right after the tenth of Av since Tisha B'Av falls on Shabbat. So there are no chumrot or stringencies for shavua shechal bo anyway. But if G-d forbid the Geulah has not begun, should we continue the laws of the nine days into the following week because of these prospective churbanot? probably not because the scope of these moves although rooted in Erev Rav idiocy and cravenness is not nearly as tragic as what occurred 7 years ago. Yet, if these things do, G-d forbid, occur, then we would have to bitterly agree that "The beat goes on."

As far as the mission statement of Rabbi David bar-Hayim for his Yeshivah, I also do not agree with him. Yet, unlike the anonymous commenter, I do not think that he is a kopher b'ikar. He makes a point that much halakhah over the past 200 to 250 years has been shaped as a response to Reform and Conservative Judaism in diaspora. According to him some of these halakhot specifically in the Ashkenazic world were originally minhagim or chumrot so that Ashkenazic Jews do not fall into the pit with the heretical factions. I do not know all the specific halakhot to which he is referring, but as memory serves me, he does challenge the efficacy of continuing the prohibition against kitniyot during Pesach. He believes that in the present circumstance, the Ashkenazic world should be more lenient in Eretz Yisrael with regards to kitniyot since it was one of those stringencies that developed over the last 250 years into halakhah. I happen to disagree with him, but that does not make everything that he has to say into something that should not be discussed at all. Of course, there will be some readers who will want to put him into Cherem for even bringing it up. I am not one of them.

At Thu Jul 12, 09:22:00 AM 2012, Blogger Neshama said...

On all the expulsions and similarities: Where are their brains? Why do they do these horrible things around tisha b'av? Such stupidity.

Dov, what about this statement: "Machon Shilo encourages the study and implementation of the traditions and rulings found in the ancient sources of Land of Israel such as the Talmud Yerushalmi (Jerusalem or Palestinian Talmud), compiled in Tiberias in the 4-5th centuries, rather than the Talmud Bavli, compiled by rabbinic authorities in Babylon some 200 years later."
If a religious govt came about, why would they institute a Golus legal system (European/Sephard) as opposed to the ancient Yerushalmi Talmud? Presupposing, of course, that most of Jewry was living on the land.

At Thu Jul 12, 09:38:00 AM 2012, Blogger Dov Bar-Leib said...

They do it right after Tisha B'Av to demonstrate that people who worship and are paid by "World Public Opinion" are in control. The Erev Rav likes to constantly remind us that we are still in galut, and they get paid well for reminding us. On a related note, it is precisely because of that that I find myself disagreeing with Rav Bar-CHayim. We still are in a world wide galut Edom. We still are overwhelmed by Ashkenazic Reformim and Masoretim who want to uproot everything. So the Talmud Bavli still applies right now. When Atereth HaYesod is firmly established, G-d willing, by this Tisha B'Av, we can consider re-establishing the pre-eminence of the Talmud Yerushalmi. And we can consider eliminating those laws that arose because of the same Reform and Conservative Rabbis that are still demanding recognition right now. We still are the minority in a very wicked world. But at that time, G-d willing, in the near future, we can consider all of the points through our Rabbis on the re-established Sanhedrin that Rav Bar-Chaim addresses. Until then, Rav Bar-Chaim is worth listening to even if we are not quite ready to implement his ideas.

At Thu Jul 12, 09:53:00 AM 2012, Blogger Dov Bar-Leib said...

Yet, I notice that the Euro has plunged below 1.22 today, another all time low. What would happen if before Rosh Chodesh Av or during the week before Tisha B'Av.....

Yeish Din the group of Erev Rav thugs who sued to destroy five apartment buildings in Ulpana, 300 meters from the site of Ya'akov's dream, is a 100% bought and paid for European non-Government Organization. What would happen if all of a sudden, Yeish Din no longer had a paycheck?

At Thu Jul 12, 10:27:00 AM 2012, Anonymous Anonymous said...

My words refer to the person who wrote and signed those words, thank you for clarifying that neither Dov nor the blog owner subscribe to these words.
May we soon see the demise of the euro and of the erev rav.

At Fri Jul 13, 12:15:00 AM 2012, Blogger joshua manevitz said...

I propose that the gezara on the Yeshiva bochurim may have a positive side if only we were capable of playing our cards to the best of our ability that means we must understand that by them insisting that we orthdox jews enlist or do some voluntary work like visiting sick people in the hospital which is one of the mitzvas then either or they the chilonim also must surrender the government to the ultimate authority which is Torah law or leave the staus quo and we will all see how fast they will leave the Yeshiva boys and avreiche kollel alone . There is no gezera it's all in our mind .


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