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Monday, April 29, 2013

Rav Amar on Shivyon

Arutz Sheva:

Chief Rabbi: Equal Burden of Service? Nonsense

Rabbi Shlomo Amar says talk of hareidi-religious enlistment is ‘nonsense.’
By Maayana Miskin
First Publish: 4/29/2013, 3:42 AM

Rabbi Shlomo Amar, the Chief Sephardi Rabbi of Israel, dismissed calls to require hareidi-religious men to enlist in the IDF in a talk Saturday night. Rabbi Amar spoke prior to the weekly Torah lecture given by Rabbi Ovadia Yosef.

Rabbi Amar said that the issue of hareidi enlistment “is nothing more than the evil inclination, which has put a ruach shtut [lit. ‘spirit of nonsense’ – ed.] into some people.”

“In our generation Torah is flowering like we have not seen for generations,“ he said. “The evil inclination saw this and was jealous, and went and put it in some people’s heads to fight against Torah.”

“There has never been nonsense like this,” he said. “As if we have no issues, our society doesn’t have rich or poor, we’re all ‘fully equal.’ This is the only equality we lack, there are no enemies, we have made peace with them. The only enemy left is the yeshivas.”

“There has been nothing like this before, this craziness… Due to our sins this spirit of nonsense entered some people,” he said.

“Our redemption depends entirely on Torah,” he concluded.


At Mon Apr 29, 12:28:00 AM 2013, Blogger Shimshon said...

I find it sad but predictable that the only politician who seeks political leadership and has a genuine solution to this problem, is totally ignored.

Moshe Feiglin has proposed converting the IDF into a smaller and tighter all-volunteer force, with otherwise universal male short-term basic training (kind of like the Swiss model). This would permanently eliminate this as a political issue entirely.

Isn't it funny how it otherwise always is an issue, regardless of which party is in power?

At Mon Apr 29, 08:16:00 AM 2013, Blogger Neshama said...

It seems Rabbi Amar is totally sidestepping the social issues involved. Also, he is ignoring the emotional pain felt by many grieving parents. Also, he is shutting out (the possibility) that HaShem is in charge (not the devil) and has a greater reason and purpose to this situation that has arisen just now. (Also, a political motive)

Some of the (Lapid) allegations may be true about how the former financial machinations worked. If so, the whole issue needs level-headed discussion by both Haredim and the present government. In Israel it's not what but who you know (although what you know does carry weight) that gets things done. This is no way to run a government or a nation.

For non-Haredim there are myriad advantages to training in the military. A nation needs armed forces to protect the land and its people. A nation needs all types of professions and skilled workers to exist. For Haredim, their whole existence is in the service (Avoda) to G-d. We need both, we need all of this for a Jewish Nation.

I think this all came about in order to bring it out in the open, for both sides to fight it out, and to ultimately reach a solution that will be the 'next stage' in the development of our Jewish Nation on our Jewish Homeland.

The Geulah marches on!

At Mon Apr 29, 11:02:00 AM 2013, Blogger Genoism said...

Only a Jew with zero faith in Hashem could ever think to say that we need an army.

Have you ever davened before? Have you not read that if you follow all of Hashems commandments and statutes that he will protect your borders from anyone and anything?

At Mon Apr 29, 12:22:00 PM 2013, Anonymous Anonymous said...

What about the judges king david and all the god fearing and loving generals that came after ? For the jews War is a part of staying free from anhilation .

At Mon Apr 29, 12:25:00 PM 2013, Anonymous Anonymous said...

If this is the time to bring back a god loving and respecting army dont the rabis c a reason for it?

At Mon Apr 29, 02:30:00 PM 2013, Blogger Dov Bar-Leib said...

Genoism: What?? Are you kidding?? There are major mitzvot about being a soldier in a Jewish Army. There is even a Kohen designated to accompany the Jewish army into battle. What type of nonsensical point did you make here. Of course we need HaShem to bless our efforts, and of course we need an Army. Why would you even write such a thing?? Shaul HaMelekh did not have an army? David HaMelekh did not have an army? I am trying to grasp your meaning. Maybe I missed what you were trying to say. One is supposed to daven, and one is supposed to prepare for war.

Whoever had the idea that all these draft issues should not be implemented until 2017 was struck by a stroke of genius or Ru'ach HaQodesh. We will have an "integrated" army by then, but Mashiach will already be here to lead it.

At Mon Apr 29, 02:39:00 PM 2013, Blogger Dov Bar-Leib said...

Just to help Genoism and others recollect how we are supposed to go to war as a Jewish Army, here is the following from Rav Yisaachar Frand, just in case this part of the Torah is missing from one's Chumash:

At Mon Apr 29, 03:10:00 PM 2013, Blogger Dov Bar-Leib said...

Ok, Genoism, I will give you the benefit of the doubt. Maybe you mistyped...that we don't need an Army.

At Mon Apr 29, 03:16:00 PM 2013, Anonymous Anonymous said...

To all the above who commented: Agree with Rav Amar on this point. The IDF itself has stated they do not need more enlistees. Also, a volunteer army today would be more professional. It seems that even after all that has been written about this - very intelligent people, like the ones writing here, seem to not understand the real reason for this 'out of the blue' conscription of chareidim, after all the years of the status quo. Lapid has an agenda and do believe he is carrying out the wishes of his father and, of course, the general agenda being promoted now (so obvious) to water down Judaism in Eretz Yisrael. We see this happening in other aspects in Israel today. How can intelligent people not see this? This is not about sharing the burden - those who learn Torah share more than their share of the burden. Torah saves! Of course, the army is necessary for Israel, especially being surrounded by enemies and also those from afar. Those who put their lives on the lines are the other side of the same coin = Torah/army. Those pushing for this know very well that a good percentage of these sheltered youths will lose much of their frumkeit and others will go off the derech completely. There are always strong-minded people who will, thankfully, not change. This is a matter where there cannot be coercion! There are those who are volunteering as we speak. Also, the IDF has disappointed in the recent past, many in the chareidi units, where agreements were not honored (women, kashrut, etc.). Leave the chareidim alone. Forcing such an issue is undemocratic. Rather than having a meeting of the minds from both sides (govt and the Rabbis); it is being forced without rational and civil discussions. Those who fear H' and sit and learn Torah are definitely the reason for Israel's safety, security and strength, first and foremost. King David would go out to war with the Torah in one hand and his weapon in the other. But then the land was being led by H's servant, David. Today, we have erev rav leading; there's the difference and what a difference. Another point: isn't it clear to all that this has been very calculated and the reason for the so-called religious zionist party to join with such a relgious hater such as Lapid, so this agenda can move forward and be implemented. A good way to rid Israel of its ultra orthodox. Do believe this is the real reason.

At Mon Apr 29, 03:33:00 PM 2013, Blogger Dov Bar-Leib said...

Actually to be very fair to Zionists like Bibi Netanyahu and Defense Min. Moshe Ya'alon, both are on record saying that there should be no quota on Matmidim, that is all genuine matmidim should be left alone. This does not mean that all matmidim should get a full salary and a pension. Yet, that is not the case now either. Matmidim right now get a small stipend. Under Bennett's plan 1800 matmidim will get a full salary and a pension. Taking the best from Netanyahu and Ya'alon, the remaining matmidim should continue to get the stipend and an "eqivalent service" certificate that their full time Torah study is equivalent to Army service when looking for a job later on. The issue of the part time learners and the no time learners obviously requires some kind of hesder Army service. The exact compromise has not yet been worked out. And we have 4 years to think about it, compromise, and work out the details. Obviously, kashrut, the issue of female officers, and forced performance attendance with Kol Isha has to be worked out. G-d willing we can work this all out without the acrimony...or am I thinking too much like an American as America used to be a generation ago where solutions were worked out through compromise.

Where never is heard an encouraging word, P'SHARRAH.


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