Wednesday, July 30, 2008

Olmert Announces Resignation - Ge'ula Soon?

PM Olmert says he won't run for the Kadima primaries in September.

As Nava suggests, this may be good news on the Ge'ula front.

Also, see this idea (that Olmert will be the leader before Ge'ula) in Hebrew at Hashem1.net.

18 Comments:

At Thu Jul 31, 10:41:00 AM 2008, Blogger joshwaxman said...

But how can it be like this variant girsa, read backwards, with a vav omitted and with a tav replacing the tes, when the sefer itself claims that the halacha is not like Michael who spoke to Eliyahu, but rather like "Rabbi Shimon Bar Yochai?" See the end of the statement. Can the halacha be not in accordance with reality? I am confused. ;)

ואז אמר לי מיכאל קץ העתיד להיות באחרית הימים, בימיו של מלך העתיד להיות*, הרמלת שמו, ויש אומרים תרמלא שמו. ר’ יהודה בן בתירא אומר כורש שמו, רבי שמעון בר יוחאי אומר הכשרא שמו, והלכה כרבי שמעון דאמר הכשרא שמו.

 
At Thu Jul 31, 10:47:00 AM 2008, Blogger joshwaxman said...

Also, if we are going by Sefer Eliyahu, this sefer also claims that Mashiach will come on 20 Adar, which has already passed this year, and will next come when Olmert is out of power. It would also not work with those claiming Mashiach must come by this Rosh Hashana.

 
At Thu Jul 31, 10:52:00 AM 2008, Blogger joshwaxman said...

Also, see Moshe Yess's comments on this blog:
http://yearsofawe.blogspot.com/2006/02/appearance-on-tamar-yonah-show.html#113935711293679709

and about the fungibility of all of this.

Kol Tuv,
Josh

 
At Fri Aug 01, 12:44:00 PM 2008, Blogger yaak said...

Josh, it's nice that my cousin, the Jblogosphere's mystical debunker is still reading.

I don't understand "Vahalacha K..." in this context either. Perhaps, it means that הכשרה is not his real name, but that he'll show everyone that he's Kasher, similar to how a pig shows off his split hooves - and that's שמו (i.e. his essence), even though others call him by a different name.

Re: 20 Adar - first of all, I haven't seen this inside, but I'll take your word for it. 20 Adar, 5769 falls out on March 16, 2009. Since Kadima's primaries won't take effect until September, and the leader still has 90 days to form a government, and if one is not formed, most likely, they'll have 90 days after that to form a government, it's still technically possible for him to be Prime Minister on March 16th, 2009. Anyways, I'd like to know exactly what the Midrash says before I comment futher.

Re: what Moshe Yess said, I see where he's coming from, but I couldn't disagree more with his sentiment. We need to instill Emuna into people by giving them possible times for him to come. (If you notice, I used a question mark in the title of my post. I also used the word "may" in the body of the post.) Here is a possible sign that he's coming soon - I wouldn't knock it off or call it "silliness" or "nareshkeit" as you did on your blog.

 
At Mon Aug 04, 06:42:00 AM 2008, Blogger joshwaxman said...

:)

Hey, I try to keep things lively. And honest.

I will admit that it is *possible* that Olmert will still be in power come Adar 20. But what bothers me more is how this one quote was taken entirely out of context -- namely, without the alternate opinions within the text itself; and without the context of the other predictions made in the same text -- and applied to advance a very specific position within this world view. Without any attempt to see if it all works out. I think the same one posting this excerpt also believes that Mashiach is coming by September, or at least by Novemeber, when President Gog Bush is going to cancel the US elections in response to a nuclear attack by Iran. And indeed, as we see elsewhere, the rumor is that mashiach is to be heard from again in Tishrei (September).

I think it is very hard to take anything like this seriously when it is taken out of context and mixed and matched -- and advanced by someone who thinks they are Dr. Doolittle.

One can (should!) hope for mashiach, but just as it is appropriate to discrimination when evaluating sources in halacha, or in science, I believe it is appropriate to apply discrimination when evaluating messianic claims.

I also haven't seen the Adar 20 inside, BTW. I was relying on the claim in that link.

Kol Tuv,
Josh

 
At Tue Aug 05, 09:24:00 AM 2008, Blogger גילוי said...

Yaak,

If I recall correctly, a new Prime Minister (candidate) has 45 days, not 90 days, to present the government to the President. If we take the vote to be 1 round on 9/17/2008, then add 45 days to form a new government, and then 90 days for snap elections, you arrive at the 31st of January, 2009, or the 6th of Shvat, 2009, which is Shabbat. That leaves the 7th of Shvat, 2009, which was mentioned in the comments to a blog post of yours from November 2006.

There would then be another 45 days for the new Prime Minister elect to form another government, taking us to the 18th of March, the 22nd of Adar.

 
At Tue Aug 05, 12:46:00 PM 2008, Blogger yaak said...

גילוי,

I got my info from R' Lazer Brody's recent post. I can't vouch for its accuracy.

The result is pretty much the same, however - except for the part about 7 Shvat - which is VERY INTERESTING - thanks for reminding me about this. The date mentioned in that post was mentioned by Rav Mordechai Eliyahu Shlit"a (he should have a refu'a Sheleima) in a shiur.

 
At Wed Aug 06, 02:05:00 AM 2008, Blogger גילוי said...

Don't forget here:

http://yeranenyaakov.blogspot.com/2006/11/new-beitah-date.html

 
At Wed Aug 06, 12:00:00 PM 2008, Blogger yaak said...

Oh, so you posted that comment, I'm guessing.

Where do you get the information that Mashiah will distinctly not be from the "religious establishment" ? Are you saying that he won't be religious - or that he won't be from a known religious group from our day and age? Is that your interpretation of עני ורוכב על החמור?

 
At Wed Aug 06, 12:29:00 PM 2008, Blogger גילוי said...

I thought it was clear that I am not that anonymous poster.

 
At Wed Aug 06, 12:34:00 PM 2008, Blogger גילוי said...

Nonetheless, if you have read what is written on my blog under the 5783 label and the Erev Rav label, you should see that it is not a big leap.

 
At Wed Aug 06, 01:22:00 PM 2008, Blogger yaak said...

My apologies for jumping to conclusions. It seemed much in line with your shittah.

 
At Wed Aug 06, 03:15:00 PM 2008, Blogger גילוי said...

No apologies necessary. It is in line because it is related.

 
At Thu Aug 07, 03:23:00 PM 2008, Blogger joshwaxman said...

"Where do you get the information that Mashiah will distinctly not be from the "religious establishment"?"

I had a post on this subject recently, in which I claimed that Ben Gurion was mashiach.

See here:

http://parsha.blogspot.com/2008/07/was-lubavitcher-rebbe-or-david-ben.html

;)

 
At Thu Aug 07, 05:27:00 PM 2008, Blogger yaak said...

Josh, what a great post!

Or, you could say that דוד בן גוריון has a gematria of 341 and most people think of him as being a good (טוב) Prime Minister - and טוב has a gematria of 17, so 341 + 17 = 358, which is the gematria of משיח.

OK, I like your "reasons" better.

:-)

 
At Sun Aug 10, 10:06:00 AM 2008, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yaak, he won't be from the religious establisment. Baal tshuva at least, to what degree is debatable. Just remember, haShem will identify him. This way we know for sure, and not another shabtai syndrome. There is talk about someone who will reveal himself in sept. Be careful, we are to fall for a false Mashiach first, are we not?

 
At Mon Aug 11, 12:07:00 AM 2008, Blogger yaak said...

There is no proof to that claim (that we are to fall for a false Mashiah). Are there proofs to your claims that he must be a baal Teshuva? I'm not saying it's impossible - just where is your proof?

 
At Mon Aug 11, 07:42:00 PM 2008, Anonymous Anonymous said...

There will be proof, be patient. Watch this play out soon as you are seeing.

 

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