Thursday, January 07, 2010

Dybbuk Exorcism via Skype 4

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Ladaat.net reports that it was still unsuccessful, despite trying it live.
Hundreds of onlookers showed up to watch.
Included in the link is a small audio clip that was used along with some pictures.

Update:Matzav.com has a couple videos of the event too.

23 Comments:

At Thu Jan 07, 11:36:00 PM 2010, Anonymous Anonymous said...

will this bring moshiach,, does dybbuk no when moshiach coming

 
At Thu Jan 07, 11:47:00 PM 2010, Blogger yaak said...

My blog is 75% Mashiah and 25% other stuff.
The Dybbuk posts are part of the other stuff.

Although, I saw on one website that the Hazon Ish said that the Dybbuk that the Hafetz Hayim took care of would be the last one before Mashiah. Read that whatever way you want to read it.

 
At Fri Jan 08, 12:02:00 PM 2010, Blogger joshwaxman said...

According to Matzav,
http://matzav.com/rav-shternbuch-to-dybbuk-you-may-not-hurt-rav-batzri

Rav Shternbuch put the dybbuk in niddui, and forbade it from doing Rav Batri harm. In this instance, indeed, I have emunah that this ban will be effective, in that no dybbuk will harm Rav Batzri.

;)

kt,
josh

 
At Fri Jan 08, 12:36:00 PM 2010, Blogger yaak said...

I'm glad we agree on something!
:-)
Shabbat Shalom.

 
At Fri Jan 08, 01:19:00 PM 2010, Anonymous nazir said...

so this may be the sign vilna gaon moshiach coming before rosh chodesh nissian 5770

 
At Fri Jan 08, 02:01:00 PM 2010, Blogger yaak said...

Nazir, if you want to read it that way, go ahead.
Also, the dybbuk itself reportedly said:
"תיזהרו הסוף מגיע" ("Be careful! The end is coming!" - I'm not sure what language this was said in)
which doesn't necessarily mean the End of Days, but very well could mean that. Who knows?

 
At Sat Jan 09, 11:32:00 AM 2010, Anonymous nazir said...

so when did the dybbuk say that end is coming?? and what does this mean,,, i was reading israel defence minister say there will be a war syria leabanon march 2010 so this could mean cthe same what vilna gaon said also a year since birchas hachama

 
At Sat Jan 09, 11:35:00 AM 2010, Anonymous nazir said...

can the rabbi batsri ask the dybbuk when MOSHIACH COMING!!!!
and WHEN WIl war gog magog start and did it mention about vilna gaon moshiach besi hamikdosh 2010

 
At Sat Jan 09, 06:40:00 PM 2010, Blogger joshwaxman said...

oops. it turns out that rav shternbuch denies the nidui business, and considers this to be a case of mental illness.

http://daattorah.blogspot.com/2010/01/rav-sternbuch-dybuk-is-mental-illness.html

though i personally doubt we need rabbinic approval to regard this as such.

kt,
josh
hmm, i wonder who pre

 
At Sat Jan 09, 08:52:00 PM 2010, Blogger Devorah said...

Rav Shternbuch is Shown Matzav Report, Says Not a Dybbuk, But Mental Illness
Saturday January 9, 2010 6:49 PM - 24 Comments
Matzav.com and various Hebrew language websites have been reporting the past weeks regarding the Brazilian man said to have a dybbuk inside of him (see past Matzav.com reports here, here and here). Rav Dovid Batzri, noted mekubal and rosh yeshiva of Yeshivat Hashalom, has tried to chase a dybbuk from the man, as we’ve reported.

Now, however, Rav Moshe Shternbuch, Rosh Av Bais Din of the Eidah Hachareidis, has said that the man does not possess a dybbuk, but is inflicted by a mental illness of some sort. That statement by the Raavad was publicized by Rabbi Daniel Eidensohn on his blog, Daat Torah. Rav Shternbuch was shown the Matzav.com report, and others, claiming that the Eidah Hachareidis of Yerushalayim has placed the dybbuk in nidui, excommunication, and forbade it from causing any harm to Rav Batzri. The report stated that following Wednesday night’s efforts to exorcise the dybbuk in the ezras noshim of Yeshiva Hashalom in Yerushalayim, Rav Batzri feared that the dybbuk may try to cause him harm. The report continued that Rav Batzri turned to the bais din of the Eidah Hachareidis and Rav Shternbuch, Rosh Av Bais Din of the Eidah, released a p’sak from the bais din placing the dybbuk in a state of excommunication and formally forbidding it from causing any harm to Rav Batzri.

Rav Shternbuch categorically denies this and added that this is not a case of a dybbuk, but of mental illness. He expressed dismay that thousands of people believed that this was a dybbuk and were involved with Rav Batzri’s ceremony. Rabbi Eidensohn says that Rav Shternbuch urged him to write an article regarding his denial and emphasized the urgency to publicize his denial of his involvement with the proclamation of the nidui and that he viewed this as a case of mental illness.

http://matzav.com/rav-shternbuch-is-shown-matzav-report-says-not-a-dybbuk-but-mental-illness

 
At Sun Jan 10, 02:43:00 AM 2010, Blogger yaak said...

I like comment #38 on the Matzav article - "Maybe the dybbuk has a mental illness".

Seriously, though, there were bound to be many people - even Gedolim - who don't believe this. It's very natural NOT to believe something that you don't see every day.

Let's not confuse the 2 issues here: 1) Whether THIS is a case of a dybbuk and 2) Whether the whole concept of dybbukim is bunk

The answer to #1 is: I don't know but a whole bunch of great rabbis seem to say so, so who am I to argue? Rav Shternbach can argue, and those who want to follow his viewpoint have what to rely upon.

The answer to #2 is: Since thousands of great rabbis in previous generations have had experience with dybbukim, to say that it is all bunk is frankly bunk itself.

All those who say "This makes a mockery of yiddishkeit" is total baloney. Dybbukim are mentioned in countless sefarim, and is a part of our heritage, whether you like it or not.

 
At Sun Jan 10, 05:42:00 AM 2010, Blogger joshwaxman said...

it is not merely that these people have upon whom to rely, and those have upon whom to rely. and it is not *only* that he doesn't think this particular one is a dybbuk.

"He expressed dismay that thousands of people believed that this was a dybbuk and were involved with Rav Batzri’s ceremony."

why the dismay? what does rav shternbuch think is wrong which the processing carried out by those thousands of people?

kt,
josh

 
At Sun Jan 10, 11:13:00 AM 2010, Blogger yaak said...

R' Josh, I believe you're reading way too much into the statement that you read in the name of R' Shternbach.
He apparently (if I'm to believe R' Eidensohn's blog over the original kikar article) is of the opinion that this dybbuk is really a case of mental illness, and he is therefore dismayed that everyone is making such a big deal about it.
Not to ח"ו say that he doesn't believe in dybbuks - something mentioned in sefarim that he most certainly has read about.

 
At Sun Jan 10, 03:27:00 PM 2010, Blogger joshwaxman said...

"Not to ח"ו say that he doesn't believe in dybbuks"

right. about that i agree. there are two separate issues here. but before r' shternbuch came on the scene (prompted only by the spurious statement regarding his personal actions), his hope and expectation is that people would hear hoofbeats and think horse, not zebra. the problem, to my mind, is that the brazilian community appears so superstitious that the horse is the dybbuk and the zebra is the mental illness.

btw, according to certain commenters who claimed to be present, neither r' kanievsky nor r' steinman confirmed it as a dybbuk, but just gave the referral, as it was not their field.

but people ran with it and transformed it into: "if you don't believe in this dybbuk, then you are going against the Gedolim."

in terms of appearing in sefarim, it is outside my realm of expertise. as far as i understand, it is part of the three-fold kabbalistic idea of gilgul, ibbur, and dibbuk neshamot. although the foreign entity taking possession evolved over time into the present ghost of a sinner. but i don't think chazal themselves speak of it. if so, it is something one cannot challenge at least in the theoretical sense without challenging the very foundation and integrity of kabbalah. which is why, indeed, i would not expect rav shternbuch to say *that*. bu there are two aspects in play, and i was trying to argue on both fronts.

kt,
josh

 
At Sun Jan 10, 05:32:00 PM 2010, Blogger yaak said...

You use the word "superstitious" - I prefer to use the word "spiritually-minded".

outside my realm of expertise

What??? This is exactly your realm of expertise. If you would do the research, you will find it. Are you perhaps scared to do the research because what you may find may surprise you?

 
At Sun Jan 10, 07:39:00 PM 2010, Blogger joshwaxman said...

"What??? This is exactly your realm of expertise. If you would do the research, you will find it."

i know (sometimes) when i am out of my depth. there is a huge background of kabbalistic concepts, context, and terminology i am lacking. this is not something a typical yeshiva background provides. so i'd need the years of background knowledge before understanding a kabbalistic text as well as i would understand, e.g., a gemara. the same goes for medieval Jewish philosophy. i am admittedly out of my element. you may be right that i should spend the years of effort to get up to speed, but this is no small amount of effort.

but meanwhile, it just gets better and better. check out the latest:
http://daattorah.blogspot.com/2010/01/dybuk-r-y-batzri-accusations-against-me.html

kt,
josh

 
At Sun Jan 10, 11:09:00 PM 2010, Blogger yaak said...

I too had a typical yeshiva background, and my knowledge of kabbala is very much lacking (not like my knowledge of nigleh is anything to brag about either).

However, I'm just referring to finding references to dybbukim in sefarim - nothing too complicated for someone like you.

And regarding the link, do you know R' Yitzhak Batzri's relationship to R' David Batzri?

 
At Mon Jan 11, 06:09:00 AM 2010, Blogger joshwaxman said...

his son; but now comments there suggest that the comment purportedly from r' yitzchak batzri is a forgery! heh. unfortunately, it seems plausible enough.

kt,
josh

 
At Mon Jan 11, 03:05:00 PM 2010, Blogger joshwaxman said...

check this out:
http://blog.yachdus.com/2010/01/dybbuk-fallacy.html

kt,
josh

 
At Mon Jan 11, 05:40:00 PM 2010, Blogger yaak said...

Josh,

Now that's ridiculous!

:-)

Before anyone updates me on it, I saw this already.

 
At Tue Jan 12, 12:13:00 AM 2010, Blogger yaak said...

On this VIN article, comments 11, 14, 16 and 24 make a lot of sense to me.

 
At Tue Jan 12, 07:38:00 PM 2010, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Shalom Israel,

I am from America... I have just read over parts of Ecclesiastes and saw the irony and beauty in Shlomo's inner mind. The Kasuv much like the Film American Beauty; a film which won Best Academy award for Screen Writer in 1999 can be put as suddely similar in terms of a message or two.

I bring this point up now for purposes of inspiration to all torah scholars for understanding the message behind all writings of those who preceded our generation.

May the Mosiach Ben Dovid lead us to the Biblical Israel borders of the Birth of Avram; borders which were also ruled over by KING SOLOMON.

Yaakov Yaranen.(Joab)

 
At Sat Feb 06, 08:58:00 PM 2010, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Part of הלכות עבודה זרה וחקות הגוים ברמב"ם פרק י"א הל' [כ] (טז) : ודברים אלו כולן דברי שקר וכזב הן, והן שהטעו בהן עובדי עבודה זרה הקדמונים לגויי הארצות כדי שינהו אחריהן. ואין ראוי לישראל שהם חכמים מחוכמים להמשך בהבלים האלו, ולא להעלות על הלב שיש בהן תעלה, שנאמר כי לא נחש ביעקב ולא קסם בישראל (במדבר כג כג). ונאמר כי הגוים האלה אשר אתה יורש אותם אל מעוננים ואל קוסמים ישמעו ואתה לא כן נתן לך ה' אלהיך (דברים יח יד
.(

 

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