Monday, August 02, 2010

What Me Warry?

A month and a half ago, I blogged about Rav Berland's prediction about war breaking out on the 22nd of Av.

Some blogs that I respect are skeptical about this.

I don't know whether the last few hours of the day will produce a war or not. I just found the following very interesting.

Grad Katyusha rockets were fired at Eilat and Aqaba, killing a Jordanian and injuring a few more. No one knows where they came from. Israel thinks they came from Sinai. Egypt vehemently denies this.

Meanwhile, Debka (h/t EoZ) says that they came from the Edom Mountains. And it hit a city called Aqaba, which, in Hebrew, is spelled עקבה - the main letters in the name יעקב.

I don't know if this report is true, but if so, it could symbolize the way Edom has treated the Jewish people throughout the centuries. Some Pesukim that explain what eventually happens to Edom for the way it treated the Jewish people come to mind, mentioning the "mountain of Esav". Ovadia 1:8-10,21:

ח הֲלוֹא בַּיּוֹם הַהוּא, נְאֻם-יְהוָה, וְהַאֲבַדְתִּי חֲכָמִים מֵאֱדוֹם, וּתְבוּנָה מֵהַר עֵשָׂו.

8 Shall I not in that day, saith the LORD, destroy the wise men out of Edom, and discernment out of the mount of Esau?

ט וְחַתּוּ גִבּוֹרֶיךָ, תֵּימָן, לְמַעַן יִכָּרֶת-אִישׁ מֵהַר עֵשָׂו, מִקָּטֶל.

9 And thy mighty men, O Teman, shall be dismayed, to the end that every one may be cut off from the mount of Esau by slaughter.

י מֵחֲמַס אָחִיךָ יַעֲקֹב, תְּכַסְּךָ בוּשָׁה; וְנִכְרַתָּ, לְעוֹלָם.

10 For the violence done to thy brother Jacob shame shall cover thee, and thou shalt be cut off for ever.

כא וְעָלוּ מוֹשִׁעִים בְּהַר צִיּוֹן, לִשְׁפֹּט אֶת-הַר עֵשָׂו; וְהָיְתָה לַיהוָה, הַמְּלוּכָה.


21 And saviours shall come up on mount Zion to judge the mount of Esau; and the kingdom shall be the LORD'S.

22 Comments:

At Mon Aug 02, 01:04:00 PM 2010, Anonymous Anonymous said...

מיתוק דינים...

 
At Mon Aug 02, 01:22:00 PM 2010, Blogger yaak said...

Yes - this could very well be מיתוק דינים.

One of the blogs I linked to calls this an "unfalsifyable prediction", but by definition, that's what נבואות לרעה are because of מיתוק דינים.

He shouldn't blame R' Berland for getting this wrong - he should blame Sefer Yona.

Now, what caused the מיתוק דינים is a good question - was it R' Mordechai Eliyahu's passing? Was it the Ahdut that generated? Was it all the other troubles that we experienced during the three weeks this year?

That's what I'd like to know.

 
At Mon Aug 02, 01:37:00 PM 2010, Anonymous Saidou said...

It's already nighttime (23 of Av)in Israel, and Baruch Ha-shem, war has not erupted. But, I believe that the next arab-Israeli war will become a nuclear war. Iran, Syria, the Hizbullah, and the Hamas now have very sophisticated and very destructive weapons that can reach all parts of Israel. Israel will have no choice but to counter-attack with its nukes if it wants to survive. The only question now being how long will the Netanyahu government allow the enemies of Israel to get the best of them. The more the Israeli government slumbers, the stronger the enemies of Israel get. The Netanyahu government has given in to Obama with regard to attacking Iran. It has given in to the Hamas with regard to the Gaza blockade. It has given in to the Hizbullah with regard to its bringing sophisticated weaponry into Southern Lebanon. And now it has given in to Turkey with regard to the UN probing the Gaza flotilla affair. A future nuclear war is now almost inevitable. Unfortunately, Jewish leaders have considerably weakened Israel's security. And with all of this, Jewish leaders now want to give the Palestinians a state. Only the coming of Moshiach can save us from all of this stupidity that has endangered the lives of millions of Jews.

 
At Mon Aug 02, 01:59:00 PM 2010, Blogger joshwaxman said...

forget the war. that is small potatoes. my sources tell me that the Martian armada is on its way to enslave the earth. i'll try to keep them at bay, by fighting psychically. but we'll only know tomorrow whether the Martian fleet will arrive, or if i am just *that* good at psychic warfare. bli neder, i'll keep you posted.

;)

kt,
josh

 
At Mon Aug 02, 02:34:00 PM 2010, Blogger yaak said...

Josh, the reason why I'm not getting my phaser and deploying the shields is because I don't know who your sources are or why I should trust them.

 
At Mon Aug 02, 04:40:00 PM 2010, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yaak, where were you in verifying this "prediction" when it was publicized? I asked then one of the close talmidim who said that after the Rav said 22 AV, he then said the war was pushed off for 2 years.

Anyway, we should be praying that if there will be a war, it will only be between the nations, and we will not be involved!

 
At Mon Aug 02, 04:51:00 PM 2010, Blogger yaak said...

Anonymous,

In my original posting, I specifically paraphrased the article saying: "One of his students said that the rav only meant this to be Mehazeik his students (i.e. to strengthen them in Avodat Hashem) - not that he believes it to be true."

I don't have the resources to verify personally, but I'm glad you did. So, the war was pushed off for 2 years? That's news to me. The way the world is going, it doesn't look like things are going to wait 2 years, but on the other hand, I didn't think things would wait this long either, so you never know.

Amen to your second paragraph.

 
At Mon Aug 02, 06:38:00 PM 2010, Anonymous Shlomo in Jerusalem said...

I already mentioned previously that we went to a Yamenite Mekubal in the center of Israel and he said the din has been removed.

You guys are WAY out of the loop, because its been common knowledge for my family and myself that R Berland himself said that the din is over as well several weeks ago...

 
At Mon Aug 02, 07:17:00 PM 2010, Anonymous Daniel said...

Torah code discovered 4 years ago. "Atomic Iran" With an encoding of "5770" intersecting it, which can be seen at pinlight.com. "Atomic Iran" can mean a number of things and it does not necessarily mean that Iran will succeed in causing mass destruction, but I suspect that some kind of turning point may occur between now and 5771.
Atomic Iran is spelled in the Torah איראן אטמי and has a value of 322. Interestingly, this is the backwards value of President M.A's. name spelled in Hebrew (according to wikipedia spelling) מחמוד אחמדינז'אד, which is 223

 
At Tue Aug 03, 01:25:00 AM 2010, Anonymous Nosson Gestetner said...

None of the people saying "I..." are remotely qualified to share their opinion.

 
At Tue Aug 03, 02:26:00 AM 2010, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Blessings. as a believing gentile, it has always been my belief that when holy sages give warnings, its to be heeded, and many do pray and do teshuva, even among the believing gentiles. as in Jonah's case, it has to be remembered Hashem does turn away from punishments, and Jonah knew that best.
as one commentor wrote, let the war be among the nations, and although i am amongst them, by fairness it should be so. with heartfelt prayers that Israel's tears will be wiped away and the 70 nations stand for judgement for what they did to this holy nation, to whom we have to thank for our very existence.

 
At Tue Aug 03, 03:34:00 AM 2010, Anonymous Anonymous said...

meir says
I am sorry to disappoint you. These are not holy sages. These are autistic children giving warnings through a condemned practice called facilitated communicaiton.
Why these so called 'holy sages' accept them a thing which is forbidden by the bible under pain of death is a mystery to me.

 
At Tue Aug 03, 05:16:00 AM 2010, Blogger joshwaxman said...

rabbi berland is not the same as the autistics.

but see here:
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3929503,00.html

kt,
josh

 
At Tue Aug 03, 06:30:00 AM 2010, Blogger joshwaxman said...

a discussion of why this may differ from Yonah and Ninveh here at parshablog.

kt,
josh

 
At Tue Aug 03, 07:21:00 AM 2010, Anonymous Miko said...

I heard that today things are heating up on the Lebanese border. Two Lebanese soldiers have been killed in an exchange of fire. And Debka.com reports that Hizbullah is trying to inflame the situation for its own political gain. Thus the war predicted by Rav Berland may be starting right before our eyes, but one day late.

 
At Tue Aug 03, 07:34:00 AM 2010, Blogger Devash said...

In light of what is happening at this moment, the attack on Eilat may have been the start of something.

 
At Tue Aug 03, 08:26:00 AM 2010, Blogger Yehudi Yerushalmi said...

The Mabul started out as just a drizzle to give people time to do Tshuvah.

Just a thought!

 
At Tue Aug 03, 01:24:00 PM 2010, Anonymous Shiloh said...

We all know something is happening (even the goyim are saying so) but no one knows when haShem will pull the plug.

 
At Tue Aug 03, 02:20:00 PM 2010, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think a war has started on or around 22 Av.
Certainly seems to be some action taking place.
Rav Berland seems to have been correct.

 
At Tue Aug 03, 02:32:00 PM 2010, Anonymous Batito said...

Rav Berland was right. Everything started on the 22 of Av with the missiles fired at Eilat. The incident today on the Lebanese border makes the situation even more tense, with Hizbullah stating that it is ready to launch its missiles into Israel. I would not be surprised if a full fledged war started overnight against the Hamas, Hizbullah, and Syria. And who knows, Iran might even get involved. This is a war that is long overdue, with the arabs incessantly provoking Israel. I hope this time we let them have it.
Enough is enough.

 
At Tue Aug 03, 02:59:00 PM 2010, Blogger joshwaxman said...

"Rav Berland was right."

how was he right, when as we heard in the comments above, he said it wouldn't happen for another 2 years?!

as anon wrote above:
"I asked then one of the close talmidim who said that after the Rav said 22 AV, he then said the war was pushed off for 2 years."

this is a very neat trick. anyway, we will see what happens.

 
At Tue Aug 03, 04:25:00 PM 2010, Anonymous Akooka said...

I don't know if the Lebanese border skirmish is the beginning of a war, but things have been going pretty bad for Israel lately. First the Gaza Flotilla incident, then the helicopter crash in Romania, then the Gay Pride parade in Jerusalem, then the missiles falling in Ashkalon, then a Kassam rocket hits a school on Shabbat, then missiles hit Eilat, then the government allows a UN probe into the Gaza flotilla incident, and finally today the Lebanese border incident.
How much more of this can we take?

 

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