Tuesday, December 25, 2012

Rav Mordechai Eliyahu ZT"L on the Holocaust Being Gog Umagog

Translated from the Kol Tzofayich newsletter for Vayigash (very last paragraph):

Rav Eliyahu ZT"L used to say that the Holocaust was Gog Umagog, as it is written in the gemara that HKB"H could consider Hizkiya to be Mashiah and Sanheriv as Gog Umagog, but the sin caused this not to be so (Sanhedrin 94).  If so, it's possible to consider the Holocaust as Gog Umagog.  We have suffered enough.

The Rav related that someone had argued on his view and said that his words were not correct and that the War of Gog Umagog will be coming in the future, and he brought all types of proofs that it had not yet occurred.  The Rav told him: "Whoever thinks that there needs to be a War of Gog Umagog will be in this war, while those who hold that it had occurred already will be exempt from it."

And in truth, there is a difference between a statement of someone as an explanation or as an idea and someone who is deciding Halacha.  Rav Eliyahu is a Halachic decisor, and that which is decided here in this world is fulfilled in the next world.  This is especially the case if we are dealing with words of Halachic decisors who say that everything is already prepared for Redemption.

- From the book Besha'ar Hamelech

15 Comments:

At Tue Dec 25, 07:08:00 AM 2012, Anonymous Anonymous said...

B"H

The Lubavitcher Rebbe said essentially the same thing, that Bnei Yisrael were already "yotzai" Gog and Magog by the Holocaust.

 
At Tue Dec 25, 09:06:00 AM 2012, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thank you for this post.

--Tsaddik Nistar

 
At Tue Dec 25, 09:44:00 AM 2012, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I agree with Rav Eliyahu,ztl, and the Lubavitcher Rebbe,ztl. Hopefully, the Yehudim will no longer suffer, as well as the righteous of the nations. I knew someone whose father had also said years ago that the shoah was Gog U'Magog. Let us pray that only the 'amaleikim', from within and from without, will know His Wrath.

 
At Tue Dec 25, 10:42:00 AM 2012, Blogger Moriah said...

So where was Ishmael in this war?

 
At Tue Dec 25, 12:52:00 PM 2012, Blogger Jesterhead45 said...

Moriah

My subjective opinion - Ishmael sided with the Nazis with the Mufti of Jerusalem even reputedly being the one who planted the seeds within the Nazi leadership that led to the Holocaust, largely because Islam has its own unique form of theological Jew-hatred based on the ishmaelite prophet's own Jew-hatred (when the Jews of Arabia refused to accept him in the same way the Jews of Europe would later refuse to accept Martin Luther).

However, with Ishmael not being truly defeated in WW2 (and since Israel's founding due to world pressure) like the Nazis were. It can be argued that the Ishmaelite war against Israel / Judaism / Jewish people is merely a continuation of WW2 in some respects since I seem to recall Rabbi Ariel Bar Tzadok speaking along similar lines a while back.


Also, if the Holocaust was indeed Gog U'Magog then why do some opinions have Gog U'Magog being divided into 3 parts?

 
At Tue Dec 25, 02:01:00 PM 2012, Anonymous Anonymous said...

the 3rd part caled Emuna part, with many tests to pass.

 
At Tue Dec 25, 03:11:00 PM 2012, Anonymous Anonymous said...

It is very obvious that the Holocaust
is Gog and Magog. In a deep way it paved the way for the creation of the state of Israel. This is why the
Arabs and Iranians deny the Holocaust....one can say that their
denial and hatred is a continuation of the concept of Amalek (suicide bombing,attacking Israel even knowing that they will lose etc.). As the world comes closer to redemption
many concepts become more spiritualized
such as war (becoming more substituted by cyber warfare and political propaganda and financial
maneuvering).
After all the pain and suffering
the Jewish people have gone through it is absurd to even suggest more suffering etc.

This approach and kind of thinking was heavily censured by the Lubavitcher Rebbe even when these comments were from great Torah scholars .

The main thing is to sweeten the situation in increasing Ahavat Yisrael.

This is connected to what Rebbe Nachman of Breslov said that Mashiach will conquer the world
without firing one gunshot.(Mashiach will
transform everything through his great spiritual powers just like
Shlomo Hamelech who did not need to
have warfare but conquered though his incredible wisdom)

mordechai wing

 
At Tue Dec 25, 04:50:00 PM 2012, Blogger Ronnie Rendel said...

Finally, a departure from end of days war mongoring, now increase in learning nistar

 
At Tue Dec 25, 06:08:00 PM 2012, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Believe that the 'war part' of Gog U'Magog will just be fought between Edom/Eisav & the Yishmaelim, as we now see and started with the Gulf War; it is when they unite to overtake Yerushalayim,that H' takes over. This third part of the three WW's, is a religious war where ultimately the knowledge of H' will fill the earth as the waters cover the sea beds.

 
At Tue Dec 25, 08:47:00 PM 2012, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yipol Mi'tzidecha Elef, Urvava Miminecha - ELECHA LO YIGASH..!!

 
At Wed Dec 26, 09:31:00 AM 2012, Anonymous Anonymous said...

There is still a war against Jerusalem as it says in Zacharia 12 and what sounds like nuclear war in Zachariah 14.

 
At Thu Dec 27, 01:22:00 PM 2012, Anonymous Anonymous said...

finally, the star the geula enthusiasts have been waiting for will appear exactly when prophesied by the zohar (about 70 day into the year) http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/brighter-than-a-full-moon-the-biggest-star-of-2013-could-be-ison--the-comet-of-the-century-8431443.html

 
At Thu Dec 27, 01:27:00 PM 2012, Anonymous Anonymous said...

recalibrate your geula clocks

(and of course, dont forget to do teshuva)

 
At Thu Dec 27, 07:48:00 PM 2012, Blogger in the vanguard said...

Yaak, I was happily surprised by your inclusion of this sentence,
"This is especially the case if we are dealing with words of Halachic decisors who say that everything is already prepared for Redemption."

Jestergead - great point. The Muslims were soul-brothers of the Nazi machine and now we are seeing the tail-end of that machine going into destruction. (In fact, it may well be a self-destruction, as I suggest here:
http://hezbos.blogspot.com/2012/11/sowing-discord-between-syria-and-syria.html)

As for Rav Eliyahu's being a decisor - you reminded me of something that I read and therefore went off to post here:
http://hezbos.blogspot.com/2012/12/rabbi-mordechai-eliyahus-last-wish.html

It may not have been his last psak din, but I'll bet it was his most important, if not most cherished one:
http://hezbos.blogspot.com/2012/12/rabbi-mordechai-eliyahus-last-wish.html

 
At Mon Jan 21, 03:13:00 AM 2013, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Two things to keep in mind, though: 1)According to the Hafetz Hayyim, ztvk"l, World War I (which had ended only a few years before he made this statement) was to be the first of three world wars, each more catastrophic than the last. He said that the second one was fast approaching (as indeed happened), and that it would make the previous one look like child's play. As for the third and final world war, he quoted the verse, "It will be a time of trouble for Jacob, but he will be saved from it." 2)According to the Villa Gaon, ztvk"l, the climax of the War of Gog U'Magog will last for only twelve minutes, during which time one third of the world will be wiped out, a second third will be injured, and the final third will emerge unscathed.

On a completely unrelated note, this question is for Ronnie Rendell (assuming he sees it): what happened to your blog? I used to visit it occasionally, and one day when I tried to visit it, it was nowhere to be found. Did you delete your blog? If so, why? Any plans to restore it? If not, why not? Do you have your old blog posts (and the comments) saved somewhere, and if so, can you make them accessible, or at least send them to me (and whoever else wants)? I hope you somehow see this comment, and respond to me soon.

 

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