Update from Tsunami-Foreseeing Rabbi
From Ledavid.com:
Daniel has updated us again in the Hebrew forum about what the Rav mentioned in the starting post said last Shabbat.
He said that the Rav had told them that from Shamayim (שמים, heavens) they revealed to him that the only reason the Geula (גאולה, redemption) is not arriving yet is the lack of unity within the people of Israel. Furthermore, they asked him from Shamayim to talk about the subject of unity in Israel, and he asked for everyone to talk about it.
Daniel wrote that he was afraid to write such things as a Rav talking with Shamayim in this generation, because people might not believe it, because almost no one talks this way in our generation. However, to emphasize who this Rav was and still not identify him by name, he added to what he said before that the Rav "himself learned from a renowned tzadik זצוק"ל known for his wonder making and his future sight", that the renowned Tzadik that was the teacher of the Rav was the renowned Rav Nachmani, known for his accurate future sight.
Previous updates from the rav: here and here.
posted by yaak @ 7/25/2005 11:06:00 AM
10 comments
10 Comments:
The comment of the Rav about Unity is true, but according to my humble understanding the correct interpretation of this truth is strikingly different from what most will think, and different from what the Rav seems to say.
The truth of the matter is that the geula is waiting for its time, because we forfeited geula b'achishena.
Why then do I say that the claim that only lack of Unity prevents the Ge'ula is true? It was decreed that Am Yisrael would be plagued by disunity. After geula b'ita was decreed, several cults came up (Messianistic Chabad, Shas) to divide the people, to so prevent the ge'ula BY DIVINE DECREE. Look at when these cults came up, and you will understand when the decree was made.
The only thing that Teshuva can now do is minimize the suffering. We can no longer speed up the ge'ula.
The time schedule is fixed and knowable, but people do not want to hear. They want to hear that it will be this year or the next. This is NOT THE TRUTH.
I cannot say I have a source who spoke to a Rav who gives shiurim in an unknown place, and who is a Talmid of a prophetic Gadol. So you will perhaps not believe me.
Consider it in your heart. Reject the hype.
I will not necessarily discount your opinion, but one thing that I will vehemently disagree with is your labeling Shas a cult.
Shas has done a tremendous amount to bring people closer to their roots with schools, Kollelim, etc., besides their efforts in social services as well.
Whether Mashiah will come this year, next year, or in 20 years, or in 40 years, Hanistarot LaHashem Elokeinu. Is it "fixed and knowable" to those without Ru'ah Hakodesh? Does B'Itah mean the year 6000? How do you know that Ahishena is no longer feasible?
The hype doesn't seem like just hype. Still, as I've said before, if it doesn't happen this year or next, my Emunah will not be shaken.
You live in America. I live in Israel. On a monthly basis I give shiurim in a Sephardi Beit Knesset in Yesha where 50% follows Shas/Rav Ovadia and the other 50% does not. Even in this friendly Beit Knesset this dividing line determines just about any discussion. When there is a Simcha, Shas people sit on one side (if they attend), the others sit on the other side. Sad facts, and they are not limited to this Yishuv. I know of Yishuvim that are in a state of religious war because of this. No matter how positive may be what the Shas movement does within its own community, the division caused is preventing the Geula. That was my point.
This is indeed sad, but why blame Shas for the division?
Why not blame those opposed to it?
Besides the fact that this is not the Derech that Shas advocates. If anyone, blame the (I'm sure minority of the) constituants - not the institution.
I know that there are a lot of anti-Rav Ovadia Sephardim out there. I know. I went to Yeshiva in Bayit Vegan, where this sentiment was rampant. Maybe we should blame those people for starting division.
"Maybe we should blame those people for starting division."
I do not think so, but for my point it is irrelevant.
Let's forget Shas for now. We'll agree to disagree (how's that for unity? :) )
I want to know how you know that the date is "fixed and knowable".
"If Shas people sit on one side and non-Shas people sit on the other side, wouldn't that make the non-Shas people equal participants in lack of unity? Different groups and organizations will always exist, but that doesn't mean the individuals have to choose to sit separately."
It is quite one-side thing, really. I think you do not know the Shas movement very well. I did not stam use the word cult. Rav Ovadia is considered quite infallible, and Jews who reject this view are viewed very unfavorably. And in addition there are: separate schools, separate (very un-sephardi) dress code, separate kashrut/hashgacha.
And in the Yishuvim all this gets an extra dimension because of Rav Ovadia's support for Oslo, and his shita of Land for Peace.
Messianic Chabad causes different but also sharp diviseness. Again, an infallible leader. Others are tolerated, though. But also here: separate dress code (the kippa), separate hashgacha, recital of "yechi".
Again, in the end it does not matter who you blaim. The divisions are there, no matter how you analyse.
Please note how new these groups are. How they arose in the same time frame. The phenomenon is holding back the geula, which will wait until its time.
"Let's forget Shas for now. We'll agree to disagree (how's that for unity? :) )"
Ok, we stand united.
"I want to know how you know that the date is "fixed and knowable"."
The study of Kabbala is the key. Sefer Daniel, the computations of the Gra. Even the post of Daniel that you point to says it, in fact: 200 years before the year 6000. That number is indeed well-founded, but it seems to be to far away. Observe how "modal" he writes about dates that are closer. The Rav seems to indicate this or that. Nothing solid, only dreams.
You mentioned you're a Maggid Shiur, so Bimhilat Kevodcha, I vehemently oppose the comparison of Shas with Messianic Chabad. Shasniks hold R' Ovadia in very high esteem, but only as Tzadik Yesod Olam - nothing more. There may be crazies out there, but they are in a tiny minority. On the other hand, we know what Messianic Chabad holds Beshita.
Regarding your date,
Are you the same anonymous as the one here?
Sure there is a big difference (but "infallibility" is a term that is used), and yes I am the same anonymous.
Bivracha.
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