Wednesday, August 04, 2010

More War Predictions

Kikar (Hebrew), Matzav (an English translation of the Kikar article), and Rafi all talk about war predictions by Rav Amnon Yitzhak.

Let us pray that Hashem saves us from these predictions.

Also added by Matzav (and Kikar):
In recent days, Rav Mordechai Genut, author of the “Dovor Be’ito” luach, said that “Based on the stars, war will break out next month.”

I'm having a hard time with this one since we know אין מזל לישראל. If someone has a good explanation, please let me know.


At Wed Aug 04, 02:10:00 PM 2010, Anonymous Nosson Gestetner said...

None of these predictors are nevi'im, and as such they are not credible. I don't know why they get so much coverage - it just sets everyone up for a nasty fall if they do want to see moshiach, and for the people that don't, they have a jolly old laugh at our expense.

At Wed Aug 04, 03:49:00 PM 2010, Blogger Akiva said...

This is getting ridiculous. For almost 6 months security and political analysts have been stating conditions are ripe for a conflict to begin. For someone to stand up while border skirmishes are going on and "predict war" isn't much of a prediction. Now if someone was saying it in Tishrei last year...that would be a little better (but not much as most of the stresses were already in place).

BTW, if war doesn't start are ALL of these predictors navi'im shekerim?

At Wed Aug 04, 04:08:00 PM 2010, Blogger yaak said...

Akiva, you have a point. It's likely the media - Haredi and otherwise - that is hyping this more than the rabbis themselves. I'm somewhat guilty myself. But, if it's already in the news, I couldn't pass it up.

Re: your question about Nevi'ei Sheker, see these comments on an earlier post. Also, see Josh Waxman's opinion about this.

At Wed Aug 04, 06:22:00 PM 2010, Anonymous Billiam said...

The United States is to blame for the tension in the Middle East today. Instead of destroying Iran's nuclear sites, President Obama is just wasting precious time with meaningless sanctions. The clock is ticking and Iran is working very hard to complete its first nuclear bomb. In addition, President Obama has given Israel a red light in terms of attacking Iran. Also Iran is supporting Israel's greatest enemies, that is, the Hamas, the Hizbullah, and Syria. The United States had better wake up and smell the coffee. A nuclear Iran also means a nuclear weapon in the hands of Israel's other enemies.
The Middle East is more and more like a pressure cooker, and one does not have to be a Mekubal to predict that a big war is on its way.

At Wed Aug 04, 08:10:00 PM 2010, Anonymous Sfaradi said...

If a date says there will be a war - it doesn't mean Israel will be involved, therefore אין מזל לישראל.

Although they tie all forecasts together, Rav Mordechai Genut just talks about a "war" - not a specific one.

The too well known Midrash about Persia and the redemption says Jews will be terrified, but nothing will happen to them.

Can it be that US will attack Iran, and Israel will stay out of it? Maybe this is a good timing since US Army is pulling out from Iraq, and won't be targeted by Iran.

This way or another, Hashem loves us. As you might have already read, Israel is ranked number 8 happiest country in the world (2nd in Asia, US is number 14): The people of Hashem know Hashem loves them, and are very happy, despite what it might seem like from the outside ( )

Happy thoughts, everyone!

At Wed Aug 04, 09:06:00 PM 2010, Blogger joshwaxman said...

"I'm having a hard time with this one since we know אין מזל לישראל."

I'm having a hard time with this one since we know אין מזל. The assumption that the stars control human events was one based on the ancient *science* of astronomy, one which we now know is untrue. alas, this faulty has now been encoded within certain Jewish theology.

but re אין מזל לישראל, consider the gemara about the astrologer who predicted the death of two Jewish workers. the snake was killed and they were saved because of a mitzvah they performed. if not for the superseding of derech hateva, there was indeed mazal operating for these Yisraelim. but mitzvos and merit can override those. see also the astrological prediction about Moshe's death by water, that Moshe would usurp Pharaoh's power, and the one about a descendant of Yosef and Eshet Potifar.

I'm sure there are many ways to navigate it, but one straightforward way seems to be that there will be war, unless Yisrael gains more merit, or davens, etc., such that this mazal doesn't apply itself via normal means.

btw, they can be nevi'ei sheker even if we cannot technically prove it and thus not (theoretically) prosecute them for it, just as a murderer is a murderer even if there are no two witnesses to the crime.


At Thu Aug 05, 01:52:00 AM 2010, Blogger Akiva said...

Yaak, I assume you mean since they don't qualify k'halacha as navi'im they can't afterwards be called a navi sheker. In a technical sense that may be the case.

But at what point is someone making predictions disqualified? Disqualified from keeping to make predictions that we pay attention to?

Personally I've taken a new approach to the whole thing... If we have to find it b'remez (or worse b'sod), it's not the geulah.

At Thu Aug 05, 04:45:00 AM 2010, Anonymous Shiloh said...

The other night my wife went to the latest Rav Amnon Yitzak's lecture here in Jerusalem. The next day we had a friend come over who thinks this Rav is a prophet. When I said he was not, talk about being offended. I said that saying there will be a war in the middle east is a certainty which offended her even more. So I said believe what you wish is the best.

When so many have cried wolf for so long, every prediction was nothing, we must not ignore what's happening on the ground either. The weird events, the incredible increase in anti-semetism, the rise of Islam, those 'Jews' who are working with the goyim to destroy the last remnant of haShems and His Land. Look at the postive side of what R Amnon is saying, Jews belong in Israel, end of story. So it's easier to say he's a false prophet then to look in the mirror and say that YOU do belong in Israel and not in Egypt. Egypt is wonderful, Israel is most difficult. Its quite hypocritical when the 'religious' rant and rave at the chilonim for not following the Torah when they themselves pick and choose what mitzvoth to do or not. Guess it's better to stick with folding napkins for Shabbat then.

I could go back to Canada or the USA, but to what, raising our family surrounded by goyim, putting up with the anti-semetism, risking the day we won't be able to come to Israel? Russian roulette is what the galut Jews are playing today.

What about the fatalistic prediciton that Rabbi Akiva made with the Mashiach, and we don't diss his teachings.

So Akiva it's not the geulah, but wake up, we are about to be in the fight of our lives. Wait until the 'Jews' abandon Judea and Samaria. See what happens to us as we ignore the heavy mitzvoth of the Torah while concentrating on folding napkins for Shabbat. Don't turn into a faithless shephard because of a prediction that fell through. Much of the message otherwise is of dire importance.

At Thu Aug 05, 06:18:00 AM 2010, Blogger Rafi G. said...

regarding אין מזל לישראל, if this war will be as serious as they suggest, it might not be specific to Yisrael, as it might be considered a world war, and therefore the mazalos might still have a say in things.


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