Monday, July 18, 2011

Do Geula Blogs Prevent the Geula?

R' Ari Goldwag, in his farewell post, writes:
When we evaluate events and say that they are Moshiach's advent - we are limiting the events and preventing Moshiach from coming! When I look at the calendar dates and I point out all of that which is going on - I am limiting - entering into a world of da'as. Da'as is synonymous with evil and separation - it is the loss of the greater holistic world of Keser where everything - even opposites - lives in harmony. The Moshiach blogs actually serve to prevent Moshiach from coming. My discussions of Moshiach prevent him from coming.
I don't come to argue on him, but to get to the truth.  Is there truth in this statement?

Please read his entire post before commenting, and please comment respectfully.


At Mon Jul 18, 01:14:00 PM 2011, Blogger joshwaxman said...

I agree with him about living in the present, and that this is a positive and powerful message; but I disagree that the mashiach blogs prevent mashiach from coming.

If there is a ketz, then there is a single ketz which has already been set. And the various kabbalists throughout the generations who calculated the ketz did not think they were delaying mashiach's arrival.

At Mon Jul 18, 01:25:00 PM 2011, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Even if ketz is set, can't that set time be annulled or postponed like in Hezikiah's time? Tanach stated he could have been mashiach. How about when the exiles came back from Babylon? Our sources say there is one in every generation but due to our not being worthy he doesn't come. So maybe the time of ketz is dependent upon us..I don't know. It seems from our history that may be the case.

At Mon Jul 18, 01:55:00 PM 2011, Blogger akapla1 said...

The final (b'itah) keitz isn't affected. Earlier keitziem based on merit (acheshenah) can be affected, but there's enough reason to think that this late in the game, it's only going to be b'itah. Then there is Gilui's shita based on the GR"A that there are acheishenah's within b'itah that I don't want to get into.


Also Ramban and the GR"A say it's mutar (see Sefer HaGeulah, Ma'amer 4 and Biur HaGra, Safra D'Tzniusa, Chapter Five) so you have authorities to rely on.

At Mon Jul 18, 02:21:00 PM 2011, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Our actions obviously affect the spiritual and physical spheres, and thus the geula.

But teaching people to improve, brings the geula closer. Learning Torah, l'shmo, also. If teaching about moshiach and his expected arrival is within these guidelines, it is praiseworthy.

At Mon Jul 18, 02:24:00 PM 2011, Blogger Akiva said...

The explanation falls back into the place of "we can't understand anything", and while emunah is an important element of Judaism, so is knowledge - learning - delving/investigating. It's kind of like saying learning diminishes emunah (which can be true if one is not careful), yet we still must learn.

What I will say is more likely is that delving into signs of geulah draws oneself and others into a Moshiach hype cycle. And that can be very damaging.

At Mon Jul 18, 02:40:00 PM 2011, Blogger joshwaxman said...

My thoughts here.


At Mon Jul 18, 04:12:00 PM 2011, Blogger Neshama said...

I believe I understand his angst, and only hope he can truly go back to learning in depth. I don't believe discussing "things," delays the Geula. Just like we are not responsible directly for "global warming" (even tho we may be facing another ice age of sorts), but only indirectly because of a lessening of mitzvos, and an increase in 'empty' mitzvos. Not enough frum Jews are thinking of and speaking to HaShem honestly from deep within.

The Lubavitcher Rebbe said we were not discussing it enough!

At Tue Jul 19, 12:20:00 AM 2011, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am probably the last person to be able to offer anything worthwhile on any of this, but I would like to say this:

I was brought up in a secular home. These blogs, and the various thoughts and concepts expressed have been instrumental in helping me find my way back to Judaism.

I am a middle aged, house bound disabled person, and these blogs have restored in me a desire to fight to heal and yet accept. It helped me to begin Torah study, and I have begun to learn Hebrew. It led, from one link to another, an opening of a world within myself, and a greater understanding of the world outside of myself. And now, from some of these sites, I am learning to daven.

No medical team of doctors could do this. Nor could the kind words from a friend. It was searching the internet and happening onto blogs such as this. So, before anyone thinks of pulling the plug, think about this, and how it affected someone you did not know existed.

At Tue Jul 19, 08:59:00 AM 2011, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I respect ari greatly he had an amazingly learned and thoughtful blog on mashiach especialy for his young age . I feel his blog was by far the most informitive on mashiach ive ever seen weather in a yeshivah or the internet . You could only know more if your fluent in hebrew and aramaic and weant to the sources. All said ari is a very deep person and he felt these blogs maybe especially his were preventing mashiach ben yosef from being revealed . I respect that opinion of a great torah scholar like he is I hope the others whove learnt from his blog find respet in his opinion on ending the blog .

At Tue Jul 19, 09:48:00 AM 2011, Anonymous Assi said...

Nothing will prevent the Moshiach's arrival when the designated time has come, not the strongest army in the world, not all the money in the world, not all the goyim of the world, and not all the geula blogs in the world.

At Tue Jul 19, 10:22:00 AM 2011, Blogger Devash said...

Absolutely no truth to it at all. Btw, I'm back in business.

At Tue Jul 19, 04:49:00 PM 2011, Blogger in the vanguard said...

Utter rubbish!
The internet was made to hasten the geulah!
To think otherwise - by a "rav", shows he's got his head stuck in mud.

The internet is not just "some" invention. It has to do with furthering the goal for which the world was created - to take it to its ultimate level, to that of the Era of Redemption.

Here it's discussed more elaborately:

For now, poeople find Judaism and religion by blogging and reading. It's a huge window that can be opened to truth. Yes, there are those that might thereby attempt to ensnare, but then - any invention can be used for good, or bad. If the viewer seeks truth, he'll find it.

At Wed Jul 20, 11:05:00 AM 2011, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Constant preoccupation with the timing of the Geula, timing we can't know or control, gets in the way of doing our job for HaShem today.

At Wed Jul 20, 11:40:00 AM 2011, Blogger in the vanguard said...

Anonymous above also speaks pure rubbish. That is, unless he prays 3 times a day, and therefore asks for the Redemption and Moshiach about 3 dozen times a day!


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