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Monday, August 01, 2011

Hints to the Baba Elazar Murder

Kikar and its commenters came up with some interesting hints to the murder of Ribbi Elazar Abuhatzeira ZT"L.  I'll list some of the better ones:

1) Kikar in the name of R' Yehuda Silman:

אשר דהאן = 561
וַיֹּאמֶר יְהוָה אֶל-קַיִן, אֵי הֶבֶל אָחִיךָ = 561  (the first verse in the Torah right after the first murder in history)

2) Comment #5:

The Haftara of Pinehas (which is rarely read) has the following verse:

וַיָּבֹא, בְּאֵר שֶׁבַע אֲשֶׁר לִיהוּדָה (and came to Beer-sheba, which belongeth to Judah)

The word ליהודה has the same gematria of דהאן (equaling 60).  The verse can therefore be read, "And Asher Dahan came to Be'er Sheva."

3) Comment #23:

אשר דהאן = 561
להרגו בערמה = 561 (to slay him with guile - Shemot 21:14)

4) Comment #41:

In Shishi of Parshat Mas'ei (which corresponds with the day of the murder), it says:

וְאִם בְּאֶבֶן יָד אֲשֶׁר-יָמוּת בָּהּ הִכָּהוּ, וַיָּמֹת--רֹצֵחַ הוּא:  מוֹת יוּמַת, הָרֹצֵחַ.
And if he smote him with a stone in the hand, whereby a man may die, and he died, he is a murderer; the murderer shall surely be put to death.

The first four words - וְאִם בְּאֶבֶן יָד אֲשֶׁר - when read backwards starting from the א of אשר can stand for this:

אשר דהאן ירצח נפש בבא אלעזר בן מאיר אבוחצירא (וביום) ו
Asher Dahan will murder the soul of Baba Elazar the son of Meir Abuhatzeira - and on the sixth day (Friday)


At Mon Aug 01, 01:04:00 PM 2011, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Asher Dahan's middle name is Prosper. That would change the gematria completely.

At Mon Aug 01, 01:10:00 PM 2011, Blogger yaak said...

It doesn't bother me.

Also, are you sure it's a middle name and not a French name for Asher?

There's a member of our shul whose name is Prosper and gets called up by the name Asher.

At Mon Aug 01, 01:23:00 PM 2011, Anonymous Anonymous said...

His commander in the army would know - and here he refers to him specifically with his full name - Asher Prosper Dahan -

At Mon Aug 01, 01:33:00 PM 2011, Blogger yaak said...

Again, as he seemed to not use that name lately, as news sites love to use all of the murderers names which they are not doing, it seems to only be the French name for Asher.

Both mean "prosper" in English.

At Mon Aug 01, 01:34:00 PM 2011, Blogger joshwaxman said...

Not only that, but 561 is also the gematria of Eleanor Roosevelt, אלינור רוזוולט , which shows that Dahan must be a gilgul of her.

And 561 is the gematria of the pasuk which states לא טוב היות האדם לבדו . According to the theory that he was mad at having been told to separate from his wife, this is Biblical justification for his motives.

And for those that say he was a rapist, we can get an idea of his proclivities since it is the gematria of בועל בהמות.

And to show that he did it out of concern for the well-being of Klal Yisrael, we have the gematria of the pasuk ויגדל משה ויצא אל אחיו .

It is amazing what deep things one can prove with gematria!


At Mon Aug 01, 01:37:00 PM 2011, Blogger yaak said...

Josh, not prove - hint to. As a פרפרת. Big difference.

At Mon Aug 01, 01:39:00 PM 2011, Anonymous Shiloh said...

Yaak, lemons, lemonade....

At Mon Aug 01, 02:12:00 PM 2011, Blogger joshwaxman said...

i don't buy 'hints' as meaningful, if anything an everything can be hinted to.

but a hint is something that is already established. has anyone established the connection using real proofs, other than the possible delusions of the murderer?

(i have my own theory of MBY, by the way...)

At Mon Aug 01, 02:20:00 PM 2011, Anonymous Shiloh said...

If you use the acid test, the Tanach, to rule who is or isn't the Mashiach, then and only then will we know. So far, not one rebuttle of the proofs that this late rabbi is not the MBY based on the Tanach, the Talmud and Rashi. What more do you need?

Even furthmore, haShem fights our battles first, then will reveal who His representative will be according to the Tanach. This too has not happened.

At Mon Aug 01, 02:24:00 PM 2011, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Josh what does kt stand for?

At Mon Aug 01, 02:27:00 PM 2011, Blogger yaak said...


So you disagree with this entire Midrash then?

At Mon Aug 01, 02:38:00 PM 2011, Blogger joshwaxman said...

quite possibly. can you provide a quick summary of the relevant portion of that late (post-Rashi) midrash? that it uses hints?

kol tuv,

At Mon Aug 01, 03:25:00 PM 2011, Blogger Devorah said...

Wow Yaak that's amazing.
Josh: to me, your protests are beginning to sound a bit weak and desperate, like a yetzer hara unwilling to let go.

At Mon Aug 01, 03:47:00 PM 2011, Blogger joshwaxman said...

Actually, it is more than that.

I see Rav Shteinman as saying the most authentic lesson to be learnt from it (first silence, and then that we should improve bein adam lachaveiro).

And I see what is quite possibly the motivations of the lunatic who killed Baba Elazar granted legitimacy, that there was deep messianic meaning in this murder. I find that troubling and aggravating.

kol tuv,

At Mon Aug 01, 03:52:00 PM 2011, Blogger Devorah said...

That's why Moshiach's identity needs to stay hidden. As soon as he will be revealed someone will jump up and kill him. [Not saying Baba was Moshiach, just speaking generally]

At Mon Aug 01, 03:53:00 PM 2011, Blogger yaak said...

I would also find that troubling. No one granted it legitimacy.

At Mon Aug 01, 03:55:00 PM 2011, Blogger Devorah said...

No one granted it legitimacy but all those around him thought it was the case [so I'm told]

At Mon Aug 01, 04:01:00 PM 2011, Blogger yaak said...

But even so, what does that have to do with the hints that I mentioned? Not one of them mentions MBY.

At Mon Aug 01, 04:02:00 PM 2011, Anonymous Anonymous said...

His handlers - the ones who programmed him, devised this demonic plan to include the ravings about MBY. It was all planned, all programmed and all designed to create confusion and havoc within the community - uncertainty - the very atmosphere which would be so easily then to unravel or pull apart at the seams. He was used as killing machine. And soon he will die to remove all traces of evidence in the manner in which Manchurian Candidates are terminated.

At Mon Aug 01, 04:18:00 PM 2011, Blogger Devorah said...

Josh mentioned MBY, I was responding to him :)

At Mon Aug 01, 04:29:00 PM 2011, Blogger joshwaxman said...

sorry, i was thinking in terms of the post down below.

more generally, the idea that this is an extremely important event, such that it is atoning for klal Yisrael, or brings us closer to mashiach, such that we should find the murderer's name encoded in pesukim, together with the act and the victim, strikes me as promoting it to the level of importance that perhaps the delusional murderer had.

At Mon Aug 01, 04:36:00 PM 2011, Blogger yaak said...

But we do the same for the murder of Yitzhak Rabin, the Tzunami in 2004, and countless other things too. It doesn't necessarily mean that this event is more important than those events. It's just another example of ליכא מידי דלא רמיזא באורייתא.

At Tue Aug 02, 02:45:00 PM 2011, Anonymous Netanel said...

Someone wrote "So far, not one rebuttle of the proofs that this late rabbi is not the MBY based on the Tanach, the Talmud and Rashi. What more do you need?".

How about some actual proof?
Hamotzi mechavero alav haraiya.

At Tue Aug 02, 02:49:00 PM 2011, Blogger yaak said...

You're assuming I said BeVadai that he is MBY. I never did.

I merely quoted those who suggested it.

And who's being motzi anything here anyways?


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