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Monday, March 24, 2014

Rav Povarsky Shlit"a and Rav Amar Shlit"a on the Draft Law Approvers

Rav Baruch Dov Povarsky Shlit"a, the Rosh Yeshiva of Ponovezh, said at a Yarhei Kallah that every generation has an Amalek and Lapid and friends fit the bill in our generation - as they pursue the Torah learners under the guise of wanting to help them.  He said that they claim that they are the brothers of Torah learners, to which one can reply, "Deliver me, I pray Thee, from the hand of my brother, from the hand of Esau."  He continued:
The one thing that can help against them is strengthening ourselves in Torah learning, and that is what can bring Mashiah closer.  We're sure that we're near the end, and only this will help. ...

Rav Amar came to the same conclusion regarding our obligation to Torah, but not quite about how we are to relate to those approved the Draft Law:
We need to increase Torah study.  And I request that we pray - with everything that is hurting us - to pray for them, that Hashem should place understanding in the heart of those who err.  To pray for their benefit - not to pray for our own benefit.

We're not afraid.  We're not concerned.  We have gone through worse than them.  What have we not gone through?  We're not afraid at all.  But I request and plead that everyone prays for them, those poor fellows.  The heart really aches for them so that they will understand what Torah is - and that they themselves will learn Torah.  This is just a Ru'ah Shetut (lit. spirit of foolishness) that is passing through.  We need to strengthen Torah learning.

OK - Poll question:

Whose approach toward those who voted for the draft bill resonates with you?

a) That of Rav Povarsky Shlit"a
b) That of Rav Amar Shlit"a
c) That of Rav Ronsky Shlit"a who claims to have more in common with Lapid than the Haredim
d) Other ______________

Please answer in the comments.

19 Comments:

At Mon Mar 24, 03:35:00 PM 2014, Blogger Jacob said...

d) Other: Rabbi Steven Pruzansky

His latest (follow up) post on the subject is spot on.

 
At Mon Mar 24, 03:41:00 PM 2014, Blogger yaak said...

You are entitled to your opinion that Rabbi Pruzansky's post is spot on, but when I read it, I ended up disagreeing with every single paragraph he wrote.

 
At Mon Mar 24, 06:45:00 PM 2014, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Definitely, but definitely agree with Rav Povarsky's interpretation. He is absolutely right in that he knows that they are Erev Rav Amaleikim, which our sages (Chazal) tell us will be at keitz hayamim. There is nothing to help them, as they are doing this knowingly and maliciously and not erring. It's the Jews who follow their lead because they have no understanding of what Judaism/Torah demands of us, that are erring and we pray for them to return to their roots. Rav Amar is right, but here he is being too lenient on those who do not deserve it.

 
At Tue Mar 25, 03:14:00 AM 2014, Blogger 10rainbow said...

i would like to add my own choice , as a noahide. i would go by rav amar.
even the greatest of sages feared to criticise a fellow jew and for sure only Hashem Knows who are the erev rav and the lost children. saving one jew is like saving the whole world.
Rava:
do not judge anyone, your friend nor your enemy. your friend as you do not know his demerits nor your enemy as you do not know his merits.

SEFER CHASSIDIM#86
TEACHES: BEFORE YOU SPEAK, SPEECH IS YOUR CAPTIVE, AFTER YOU HAVE SPOKEN, YOU ARE ITS CAPTIVE.

 
At Tue Mar 25, 08:33:00 AM 2014, Blogger madaral said...

d) Other: Reason

 
At Tue Mar 25, 10:45:00 AM 2014, Blogger Ronnie Rendel said...

The whole thing is a distraction. Lapid is nt Amalek chas verShalom, we each have an Amalek inside of us. Lapid is at worst a "tinok shenishba", and the chareidim in Israel are not helping him become more enlightened.

Why don't they learn pnimyus haTorah in Ponovitch already? Instead of throwing out words against holy Yiden.

The Alter Rebbe taught his son, the Mitteler Rebbe, that when involved with work any Jew, he should always think of them as they are in the Machshavah Kedumah d'A"K.

More blogging on Moshiach. Less politics.

Yechi (Dovid) HaMelech HaMoshiach

 
At Tue Mar 25, 12:04:00 PM 2014, Blogger madaral said...

"Why don't they learn pnimyus haTorah in Ponovitch already?"

A profound question. Yaak, care to answer?

 
At Tue Mar 25, 12:08:00 PM 2014, Blogger yaak said...

As if I have to be the one to defend Ponovezh Yeshiva? You know the answer to that question as much as I do.

 
At Tue Mar 25, 01:22:00 PM 2014, Blogger Dov Bar-Leib said...

The Ashkenazi Litwak world is not into Chassidut. That would be the answer for not learning penimi'ut. The reason to glorify burying our pain is over now. We are not running away from Cossacks in the Ukraine begging to be beamed up by false Messiahs. Perhaps they will get around to killing each other very very soon enough. time to get in contact with one's penimi'ut. There is NO Glory to burying your pain. Really there never was. It was a self-defense against kehillot running after false Messiahs. With 6 million Jews now in Eretz Yisrael and not just in the mass graves of Auschwitz, the next Messiah will be the real deal.

Lapid is not Amaleq. He does not hate Chareidim, just the dependent life-style that his constituents have to pay for. Yet, the law according to Akiva at MPaths will allow matmidim to remain matmidim with funding coming from private tsedakah and not the public till. The Tsar here is not pulling matmidim away from their Gemorrahs. I would not expect an Am HaAretz like Lapidot to understand how supporting those who learn Torah full time benefits the entire Klal. He has not yet met his Devorah to teach him how to thicken the wicks. Plus I would not worry about something that will transpire in 2017 from affecting the Torah world. Mashiach ben David will already be here by 2016.

 
At Tue Mar 25, 02:29:00 PM 2014, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Amen to what Bar Leib commented above.

 
At Tue Mar 25, 05:29:00 PM 2014, Anonymous Anonymous said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At Tue Mar 25, 05:40:00 PM 2014, Blogger yaak said...

Anonymous 5:29,

Sorry. Cannot allow that comment.

 
At Tue Mar 25, 06:13:00 PM 2014, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dov Bear we are waiting for your next blog hurry asap , its the best geulah EY blog on the internet . When I read you I say the blessing Blessed is Hashem who gives man wisdom . Keep it up I think you have a spark of ruach hakodesh .None of our prophets kissed a.... , your included you dont censor your Torah thoughts, to be popular. Particularly intrested in the unraveling of world politics as it relates to the geulah and Mashiach B"H . Baran family brookline

 
At Tue Mar 25, 06:17:00 PM 2014, Blogger Dov Bar-Leib said...

Also the Erev Ze'ir has already claimed Mashiach ben Ephraim as a victim. According to the Sulam on Zohar VaYeira 119, Mashiach ben Ephraim was supposed to show up in the Galil (probably in Tzefat) in 5766 during the Gog W. Ben Gog Shmittah cycle. But events in 5765 (The Disengagement) made it impossible. Leftists here in Israel, especially in Labor, feed on Chareidi dependency to bribe them to join governments that destroy yishuvim. Peres and Herzog foster these "relationships" because in their mind learning Torah is NOT a threat to bowing toward the West (Edom) to benefit the power structure and the pocketbook of the Erev Rav. We saw this when UTJ joined Sharon in 5765, and we almost saw this again when Aryeh Deri begged Labor leaders (Herzog?) in recent coalition talks to join Netanyahu and to secure funding for yeshivot. Thank G-d, he failed. But in 2005 there was collusion between the Erev Rav and Erev Ze'ir to destroy Jewish Gaza albeit for different reasons. The Erev Rav is interested in fostering their personal popularity and their pocketbook by attacking Jews in Yesha. During the year before the Disengagement, UTJ was interested in receiving IS 290 million for their trouble of joining in with Sharon. Gafni and Litzman were more than happy to turn a blind eye toward Jewish Gaza in order to get the money. This dependency is a serious national security issue and must be ended forever. And the fact that Gafni and Litzman are still in charge of UTJ is indicative of the lack of teshuvah in UTJ and its leadership for enabling the Disengagement and the longer range and more accurate missiles that Hamas has now been able to shoot at SW Israel because of the destruction of the Philadelphi Corridor. People have died from this national security faux pas. Anyway, G-d willing, their ability to do this has been neutralized. If the dependency diminishes, money to support yeshivot will come from gvirim in the community and not from leftwing apparatchiks.

 
At Tue Mar 25, 06:46:00 PM 2014, Blogger yaak said...

R' Dov,

With all due respect, I cannot agree with you. It would have been much better had Deri been successful in getting Labor to join the coalition than having the anti-Torah one we have now. I'm not a fan of Labor, but at least they respect Torah.

And secondly, funding Yeshivot is a noble cause. I cannot believe you consider having money for Yeshivot a national security issue. Just the opposite. It is a national security issue now that there is less money.

Thirdly, I strongly disagree with your calling UTJ "Erev Ze'eir". I would reserve the use of that phrase to Neturei Karta types.

Finally, Gafni and Litzman are good people and I reject your Leshon Hara against them on this blog. Was the blind eye toward Disengagement a mistake? Yes. Would it have made a difference if they left? Unlikely. Let's move on.

 
At Tue Mar 25, 07:16:00 PM 2014, Blogger Dov Bar-Leib said...

There is a choke point, a p'kak, in the pouring out of Geulah Shlaimah. It is called the "release of YeHOnatan Pollard from an American hellhole". The Yetzer knows that if Pollard goes home to Eretz Yisrael, the Geulah will flow freely from that point. Yehonatan going free or G-d forbid the worst is the 3rd cup of wine at the Pesach Seder. Kos Eliyahu and Hallel (open miracles), and the fourth cup will flow from that point. We were deprived of Mashiach ben Ephraim in year 66 because of our lack of common decency. See above. So he gets out of jail through Purim like intrigue. Even the Pals want him to go free forcing Israel to make more concessions including the release of the last, 4th batch of Yud Key Vav Key (26) murderers. The only one who wants him in jail still is your Commander in Chief and Sec. of State Ba'al Kerry. For the Yetzer to be able to use the klipah of the United States as a p'kak preventing the unfolding of the Final Redemption at this time is a horrible omen for what will happen to America when the p'kak blows. But if Obama releases Pollard because he is forced to in order to shove more negotiations and concessions on Israel, America will receive NO merit from his release, none whatsoever. Either way since YeHOnatan has three letters to HaShem's Name in his name, I doubt that there will be a fourth prisoner release until that p'kak blows. I will write a new post when the p'kak blows.

Ya'ak: Is it too much to expect for Gafni and Litzman to apologize for enabling the Disengagement? to publicly recognize a sin that was done before multitudes of Jews? They were in charge of the party back then, and they are still in charge of it now. A Chassidic Rav in our community asked for them to do just that back in 2006, and has refrained from voting for Gimel since the Disengagement until teshuvah takes place. Part of "moving on" depends on public teshuvah for sins done before multitudes. For 8 years many of us have been waiting. patiently waiting. I would love to move on.

Also many in Labor, not all of course, support the Chareidi parties because of the support that they receive in demonizing settlers before the world community. Shimon Peres, the magician, is most efficient at fostering the relationship for those ends. At Age 90, he is a very dangerous man even now because of his ability to do this. And he has prospered greatly from these abilities too. I would be very careful about any alliance with those who profit from demonizing settlers in the eyes of the West. It has prolonged the galut.

 
At Tue Mar 25, 07:50:00 PM 2014, Blogger Dov Bar-Leib said...

I agree with you on support for Torah. Yet, it is a national security issue when the Left forms an alliance with either UTJ or Shas, in the past, in order to have a parliamentary majority to destroy yishuvim and to unilaterally withdraw from parts of Eretz Yisrael. We have an example of the bloodletting that has resulted from the unilateral withdrawal from Gaza. More advanced, longer range, and more accurate missiles have hit their targets in places further north than ever before with deadly consequences. If there had been no Disengagement, for instance, missiles that could hit Kiryat Malachi, Our City of Angels, would never have butchered those three people which started last year's 8 day Gaza War. It simply would never have occurred. The Gaza communities were strategically designed by the man who destroyed them to keep high tech missiles out of Rafiach and Gaza City further to the north. In short, no one would have been killed by a missile attack last year in Kiryat Malachi if there had been no Disengagement. We can debate whether they would have died by other means, but at least those who enabled Sharon's Govt. would not be at fault...as they are now. This is another reason why it is difficult to simply bury the hatchet here in Israel. We live and die with the type of political alliances that formed in the year of the Disengagement. If people don't own their sins, we only guarantee that the same folks will do the same thing again.

 
At Wed Mar 26, 04:05:00 AM 2014, Blogger Dov Bar-Leib said...

Anyway, Eliyahu HaNavi will likely be here by Pesach. He will explain it to those in UTJ who actively petitioned Sharon to join his govt. in 5765, effectively enabling the Disengagement.

The P'kak of Geulah is about to Burst

Pollard gets out, then if you are an American, drop everything if you can to hightail it out of there. America is not going to be rewarded for releasing Pollard. Lehefech. Pollard is being released to perpetuate more and greater evil upon the Jewish people. Get out if you can.

 
At Wed Mar 26, 04:04:00 PM 2014, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Whoever hits a religious jew im talking insides not just outsides may Hashem smack 7x over . Im reminded of a story of the Besht a gentile hurled a stone at the Besht and blood spilled out of his head . The ground opened and swollowed the evil man . May we begin to see miracles for faithful yidden now ! Yaak i painfully agree with dov bear on this the erev zeir is intrenched everywhere in the daatei . The satmar rebbe ztzl said most of his chassidime were from the mixed multitude . If a man is religious but the mitzvot and torah havent refined his middot thats erev zeir .

 

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