Thursday, November 01, 2012

Geula Update from Rav Fish - Vayera 5773

Update - see below.

From Rav Fish's latest:
  • He quotes an amazing statement from the Munkacher Rebbe, who basically says that there is only what to gain and nothing to lose by making Geula predictions.  The Munkacher Rebbe quotes the Sefer Hakaneh 9b, who says the same thing.  We do not need to worry about what will happen if ח"ו he doesn't come at a certain time.  Just the opposite - not keeping Mashiah in people's consciousness causes them to lose hope for Geula, he says.
  • [YY - Back on Parshat Shelah a few months ago, Rav Fish had an item talking about a Mars approach on the 14th of Heshvan, 5773 with the sky turning red.  I was incredulous, chalking it up to a hoax email.  However, at least the date of something big occurring was correct.]  Indeed, we saw on the 14th of Heshvan, 5773, there was a big storm in the U.S. and also in Jewish areas.  And I heard in the name of one of the Mekubalim Shlit"a that hurricanes (הוריקן) come due to the sins of Keri (קרי) and [improper use of?] wealth (הון).  The rectification of this is to learn the inner portions of the Torah, as is known, and as it is written (Mishlei 24:4) וּבְדַעַת, חֲדָרִים יִמָּלְאוּ-- כָּל-הוֹן יָקָר וְנָעִים [And by knowledge are the chambers filled with all precious and pleasant riches.]  And we also earlier brought down from the Mekubal Rav Moshe Aharon Hakohen Shlit"a who was very concerned about a flood in many countries of the world.  As it says (Daniel 9:26) וְקִצּוֹ בַשֶּׁטֶף [but his end shall be with a flood] and it says (Yehezkel 13:13) וְגֶשֶׁם שֹׁטֵף בְּאַפִּי יִהְיֶה, וְאַבְנֵי אֶלְגָּבִישׁ [and there shall be an overflowing shower in Mine anger, and great hailstones].
  • Rav Glazerson has a Torah codes table which has "Hurricane", "Sandy", "In the USA", "5773", "Repentance". A minimal skip of סנדי [Sandy] is found in the following verses (only the first one of these appears on the table below) from Sefer Devarim, which symbolizes the 6th millennium:
    • Devarim 32:35-36:
      לִי נָקָם וְשִׁלֵּם, לְעֵת תָּמוּט רַגְלָם: כִּי קָרוֹב יוֹם אֵידָם, וְחָשׁ עֲתִדֹת לָמוֹ.
      כִּי-יָדִין יְהוָה עַמּוֹ, וְעַל-עֲבָדָיו יִתְנֶחָם: כִּי יִרְאֶה כִּי-אָזְלַת יָד, וְאֶפֶס עָצוּר וְעָזוּב.
    • Devarim 11:4:
      וַאֲשֶׁר עָשָׂה לְחֵיל מִצְרַיִם לְסוּסָיו וּלְרִכְבּוֹ, אֲשֶׁר הֵצִיף אֶת-מֵי יַם-סוּף עַל-פְּנֵיהֶם, בְּרָדְפָם, אַחֲרֵיכֶם; וַיְאַבְּדֵם יְהוָה, עַד הַיּוֹם הַזֶּה.
  • Rav Glazerson adds that especially interesting is that the gematria of ההוריקן סנדי [the Hurricane Sandy] is the same gematria (500) as ברק חוסיין אובמה [Barak Hussein Obama].
  • [Rav Fish adds:] And it appears that we can add that it says (Mishlei 25:14) נְשִׂיאִים וְרוּחַ, וְגֶשֶׁם [a play-on-words that can mean "Presidents and wind and rain"].  And this number [when the Kollel is added to make 501] is also the number of the ministering angel תק"א who is appointed over all the destructive angels, as is brought down in the Erev Pesah prayer of Rav Shimshon of Ostrepoli ZT"L, and it is the number of the Rashei Teivot of the 10 plagues: דצ"ך עד"ש באח"ב.  And of the Milui of the name ש-ד-י. [YY - I didn't merit to understand.  My calculation gives me 814.  I now understand this.]  And of the verse (Bereishit 49:1אֲשֶׁר-יִקְרָא אֶתְכֶם, בְּאַחֲרִית הַיָּמִים [that which shall befall you in the end of days]. And of the verse . אַתָּה פוֹרַרְתָּ בְעָזְּךָ יָם; שִׁבַּרְתָּ רָאשֵׁי תַנִּינִים, עַל-הַמָּיִם. אַתָּה רִצַּצְתָּ, רָאשֵׁי לִוְיָתָן [Thou didst break the sea in pieces by Thy strength; Thou didst shatter the heads of the sea-monsters in the waters. Thou didst crush the heads of leviathan].  And also ארור המן and ברוך מרדכי - all of them have the gematria of ברק חוסיין אובמה or ההוריקן סנדי [with the Kollel].
  • Rav D. Lev adds that תשע"ג or 773 is the gematria of  יהיה רוח חזקה מאוד באמריקה [there will be a very strong wind in America].
Update:  Rav Fish published another document about Hurricane Sandy with much of the same information, but added a few interesting things wherein he advocates making Aliya.  I don't plan on translating it.

36 Comments:

At Thu Nov 01, 04:03:00 AM 2012, Anonymous Racheli said...

AMAZING!! Thanks, yaak, for your awesome translation! I very much look forward to Rav Fish's posts on your blog, since my Hebrew reading is lacking. An interesting thought- the sky turning red might signify a great judgement, which clearly the storm was. Mars is considered to be the planet of war (I'm not sure about Jewish thought on this, though), and it seems to me that Hashem is waging war against the physically oriented lifestyle that the Jews have fallen into, including what you already wrote.

 
At Thu Nov 01, 07:26:00 AM 2012, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The more You write, the more boring it gets ...
Can't You try to predict the next week lotto-numbers?
That would be more usefull ...

 
At Thu Nov 01, 09:16:00 AM 2012, Blogger 10rainbow said...

Anonymous, it is not boring at all. on rosh hashannah Hashem has already decided who gets what. how much and so on. never never undestimate the power of jews or how Hashem reacts when one tries to belittle them and His message. sages say, Hashem, the torah and israel are One. it is true that if we dont discuss mosiach, a time will come when things get really bad and we may just give up on him. money is important but lets not put life to it. see how many people lost their homes in the blink of the eye. the lotto money cannot save you or us. and if you need money, ask Hashem. thanks for the post yaakov. G-d bless your efforts. thanks.

 
At Thu Nov 01, 10:40:00 AM 2012, Blogger joshwaxman said...

"says that there is only what to gain and nothing to lose by making Geula predictions."

great!

in that case, i predict that mashiach is coming at 5 PM today.

my next prediction will come at 5:01 PM.

;)

 
At Thu Nov 01, 10:49:00 AM 2012, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Shalom,
What can a Jew do that wants to move to Israel from the US but it seems Hashem does not want this to happen? I talk to Hashem with tears to move. Are there other things I can do?

 
At Thu Nov 01, 10:50:00 AM 2012, Blogger joshwaxman said...

by the way, here is a bit about ספר הקנה:

בספר יש דברים הנוגדים את דברי חז"ל, ואף דברים הנראים כמבזים את התורה שבכתב ושבעל פה.‏

The ספר הקנה was one of Shabtai Tzvi's favorite sefarim. His kabbalistic studies were basically Zohar plus this sefer haKanah. (See Scholem, pg 115).

 
At Thu Nov 01, 10:52:00 AM 2012, Blogger joshwaxman said...

Anonymous:

why do you want to move? because of the false promises, or (much better) because you can live a fuller Jewish life in Eretz Yisrael?

 
At Thu Nov 01, 10:52:00 AM 2012, Blogger yaak said...

From your keyboard to G-d's ears.

Obviously, we're talking about predictions made by those who might know. No offense, but I don't put you or me in that category.

 
At Thu Nov 01, 10:54:00 AM 2012, Blogger yaak said...

Yeah, and I'm sure the 5 books of Moses were one of his favorite sefarim too. Therefore, it should be dismissed?!?

 
At Thu Nov 01, 10:55:00 AM 2012, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Excuse my ignorance, but who is the he Munkacher Rebbe?

 
At Thu Nov 01, 11:02:00 AM 2012, Blogger yaak said...

Anonymous 10:49,

First of all, you should know that you are not alone and many people are in the same boat as you.

As this is a deep question, I urge you to go to your local rabbi for an answer as this is not something that can be answered with a paragraph over the Internet.

Much success in whatever you do.

 
At Thu Nov 01, 11:05:00 AM 2012, Blogger yaak said...

Anonymous 10:55,

See here.

 
At Thu Nov 01, 12:16:00 PM 2012, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I remember September 11, 2001, it was a nightmare in NYC, I was actually there at Wall Street at that time and because of it I did teshuva with many other Jews. Hopefully this hurricane will shake the rest of Jews to complete the teshuva process and coming of Mashiah very soon. Amen!

 
At Thu Nov 01, 12:27:00 PM 2012, Anonymous Anonymous said...

We have to understand that all this happening is for our benefit. Many people lost their homes, properties, many left their homes because of no electricity at homes, but we have to understand that real Chesed is that we are still alive together with Mashiah who is still alive and B'H' , he will be revealed sooner than we expect. Every body should make Teshuva and accept himself to keep Shabbath.

 
At Thu Nov 01, 04:34:00 PM 2012, Anonymous Anonymous said...

My extended family and myself live in ny,three of us that own houses and are well off where very much affected by Sandy ; flooding, no power as of today still, fallen trees in the property, but two of us who can only afford to rent our aparrments,and have low incomes, BH have electricity , and where very lucky, actually my other relative made a point to stress the fact that some people might think their future is guaranteed with their houses in fancy neighborhoods , vacation twice a year,etc but really Hashem is the one who decides...and there is no guarantees if you are rich or poor, I felt that its true we are far from materialism and that's why were spared perhaps

 
At Fri Nov 02, 01:21:00 AM 2012, Anonymous tz said...

To the poster which desires moving to israel what's stopping you ? Hashem wont appear in a cloud or vision telling you to move. You must be the one making the decision and Hashem will help. Personally I am in the midst of the aliya process.

 
At Fri Nov 02, 03:06:00 PM 2012, Blogger joshwaxman said...

yaak:

the five books of Moses do not contain דברים הנראים כמבזים את התורה שבכתב ושבעל פה.

 
At Sun Nov 04, 12:40:00 AM 2012, Blogger yaak said...

Josh,

I would not rely more on a college student's dissertation than the Munkacher Rebbe in their judgement on whether a book is reliable or not.

 
At Sun Nov 04, 01:11:00 AM 2012, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yaakov- the "milui" of a word are the hidden letters only- in this case, yud, nun-lamed, tof- vov yud- which does equal 500.

Rav Fish also says that the name Sandy denotes Chulin from chol (Hebrew for sand)- I would add that it denotes the teshuvah process prior to the Geula, as the well known
pshat on the words in the kabbalat Shabbat liturgy- " hisna'ari m'ofor kumi" and sand being the driest and hence lowest form of "ofor" See e.g Likutei Sichos, volume 1 on P' Vayero.

 
At Sun Nov 04, 07:00:00 AM 2012, Blogger yaak said...

Thank you, Anonymous 1:11. I make the same mistake all the time - I'm incorrigible.

 
At Sun Nov 04, 11:34:00 AM 2012, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Just a thought not a prophecy.
I was thinking today about last chance of teshuva for Am Israel. And we know that the last day of Chanuka is the last chance for it which is December 16, 2012. I think December 12 - December 21 will be the most critical days for all human kind, then the light of Mashiah will shine.

 
At Sun Nov 04, 11:44:00 PM 2012, Blogger joshwaxman said...

"I would not rely more on a college student's dissertation than the Munkacher Rebbe in their judgement on whether a book is reliable or not."

neither would I. But Scholem says the same thing. it was just easier to cite wikipedia, as it was accessible. (the idea, if i understand it correctly, is that nigleh is so ridiculous that there *must* be nistar forces directing the conclusions.)

you have a gemara that warns against predicting the end. against that, you have a pseudonymous kabbalistic work which mocks torah shebichsav and torah shebaal peh, which "surprisingly" disagrees with that gemara.

then you have a kabbalist (Shabtai) who relied too much on this text, who personally advanced the idea of "mattir issurim", a very antinomian approach. and he participated in a messianic movement, predicting the end incorrectly. was there a churban involved?

i'm sure the book has been kashered, or was even consistently held in high regard. but i don't put too much stock in it.

none of these things are "reliable", even if the Munkatcher Rebbe thinks so. it is all hevel and reus ruach.

i wonder whether the Munkatcher Rebbe ever spoke to Leah, who wrote the following on my blog:
I have been so burnt out from all
this predictions ,I believed everything specially the warning that we must leave America before Rosh chodesh Sivan, I even Made Aliyah My family suffered greately from culture shock lack of parnassa I depleted all my savings, came back to the states, My family is super messed up: academically ,issues w/ depression,anxiety,and the person who encouraged all of this hardly ever blogs or even says that the presumably Moshiach past away.You are the only one who is very cautious about all these "PREDICTIONS' I wish I WOULDNOT HAVE BEEN SO NAIVE and saved my family and I so much heartache.


how could this be, if the Munkatcher Rebbe said "that there is only what to gain and nothing to lose by making Geula predictions"?

 
At Mon Nov 05, 12:54:00 AM 2012, Blogger yaak said...

But Scholem says the same thing.

I don't put much stock in Scholem either, for that matter. But let's say, for argument's sake, that it's true - it mocks Haza"l and Torah Shebichtav. If the Munkacher Rebbe cited from it, I would venture to say that the part he cited was acceptable.

which "surprisingly" disagrees with that gemara
No, as I pointed out many times before, the gemara doesn't apply in certain situations - no one disagrees with the gemara. Not everything is black and white. Many Rishonim and Aharonim have made predictions before after quoting the gemara and explaining how they can make predictions.

then you have a kabbalist (Shabtai)

I already answered you about this.

Re: Leah, this is indeed sad. However, there is a difference, I'm sure you'll agree, between making possible predictions and telling people to immediately act upon those predictions, vouching for their accuracy. The Munkacher Rebbe and the Sefer הקנה used the former, while some irresponsible people used the latter.
In light of this, I will admit that my wording "nothing to lose" should be qualified by saying "in a responsible way".

 
At Mon Nov 05, 08:18:00 AM 2012, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yaak, predicting is one think, but using statements like the last chance, gates are closing, come immediately or you going to suffer, Being in EY advances the redemptive process. Being among the nations delays it, run and it will be bloodbath in America etc -- this is very destructive

 
At Mon Nov 05, 09:49:00 AM 2012, Blogger yaak said...

Anonymous,

Yes, I agree. And that is what my last comment basically said.

 
At Mon Nov 05, 11:21:00 AM 2012, Anonymous Anonymous said...

and after those destructive statements they say come home, and it becomes more detest. I look at them like zombies who wants you and believe that they doing Mashiah job to bring you back.

 
At Mon Nov 05, 11:46:00 AM 2012, Blogger yaak said...

There is nothing wrong with pushing Aliya - it is part of the geula process. However, to push it as a definite now or never proposition due to events happening in America is wrong, IMHO, since כי לא בחפזון תצאו ובמנוסה לא תלכון.

This is part of the reason why I didn't translate Rav Fish's hurricane pdf.

 
At Mon Nov 05, 11:48:00 AM 2012, Anonymous Anonymous said...

thank you for not translating this

 
At Mon Nov 05, 01:54:00 PM 2012, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yaak how come in one part you believe him and the other part you say that is not correct? or you just like his gematriot?

 
At Mon Nov 05, 02:04:00 PM 2012, Blogger yaak said...

I don't see any contradiction here. Can you be specific?

 
At Mon Nov 05, 02:16:00 PM 2012, Anonymous Anonymous said...

on one hand you translate his posts on the other hand you say that some things that he say about events happening in America is wrong and that is why you not translate them. How come that one person writes true and wrong things? His works should be either true or not true.

 
At Mon Nov 05, 02:38:00 PM 2012, Blogger yaak said...

No, that is incorrect. This is not a contradiction.

I disagree with Rav Fish on many issues. For example, his anti-Zionism. I am much more of a Zionist than he is. This doesn't preclude me from translating his posts when I see truth in them.

 
At Mon Nov 05, 03:28:00 PM 2012, Blogger joshwaxman said...

"If the Munkacher Rebbe cited from it, I would venture to say that the part he cited was acceptable. "

Why? BTW, do you think the Munkatcher Rebbe believes this to actually be from Nechunia ben hakana?

"No, as I pointed out many times before, the gemara doesn't apply in certain situations"
that may be (as kvetched by various rishonim). that does not mean that this sefer is to be relied upon.

"I'm sure you'll agree, between making possible predictions and telling people to immediately act upon those predictions, vouching for their accuracy."

no, because the later comes from the former, and the Munkatcher Rebbe asserted that there are no negative repercussions.

 
At Mon Nov 05, 03:45:00 PM 2012, Blogger yaak said...

"If the Munkacher Rebbe cited from it, I would venture to say that the part he cited was acceptable. "

Why?


Because he cited it!!

BTW, do you think the Munkatcher Rebbe believes this to actually be from Nechunia ben hakana?

That's irrelevent. He cited it.

because the later comes from the former

No, the latter rarely comes from the former. For the vast majority of people, the line in the sand is known - Bedavka because of Shabtai Tzvi.

 
At Mon Nov 05, 04:01:00 PM 2012, Blogger joshwaxman said...

you and i have a very different definition of what makes something acceptable.

just because a random (wadr) chassidishe rebbe cites something does not make it acceptable, or correct.

not irrelevant if it means he has an unsophisticated understanding of the source material. it speaks to whether your "expert" citing something suddenly makes the material cited acceptable.

 
At Mon Nov 05, 04:18:00 PM 2012, Blogger yaak said...

What I will never understand is how a book that was acceptible for generations and used by not just "a random" Chassidishe Rebbe, but countless others - can be dismissed because the academic world deemed it dismissible.

you and i have a very different definition of what makes something acceptable.

Indeed.

 

Post a Comment

<< Home